more on non-nons

Mon Sep 27 21:49:30 UTC 2004

Re teachers reinforcing the idea of "non-nons"...

> Could it be that the folks who identify themselves
> as "non-nons" do so for the same reasons?  i.e. They
believe their teacher's opinion to be the truth?

Seems plausible. While many of these folks have a
definitely critical perspective on formal ed, not many
are versed in the subtleties of standard/non-standard
varieties, and certainly there's plenty of ind. lg.
"purism" floating around too (a powerful ideology even
among supposed "non-nons").

> maybe some people haven't fully entered into
> the Quechua world, and neither have they fully
entered into the Spanish world.  Since they're between
two worlds, might it make sense that they're between
two languages
> as well, not fully at home in either?  Might they
> control some domains better in Spanish, and other
domains better in Quechua?

Certainly, I think they do (don't we all?). I should
mention though, that at least in (urban & peri-urban)
Bolivia, it's kind of misleading to speak of separate
"Quechua" and "Spanish" worlds. There are LOTS of
people who speak only "Quechuañol" -- i.e., a very
Quechua-influeced variety of Spanish (or
Spanish-influenced variety of Quechua, depending on
the speaker and on your p.o.v.). These folks are NOT
bilingual inasmuch as they don't control two distinct
codes. Maybe instead of "non-nons", we should consider
the "betweens"? (or, a bit more musically,
"tweeners"). Not that a new designation helps them out
much, but it'd be a little more accurate.
Aurolyn

--- Anonby <stan-sandy_anonby at sil.org> wrote:

>
>
> I very much agree with Aurolyn's "sense is that
> what's really happening with
>  "non-nons" is that they speak non-standard
> varieties
>  of each of their two languages, and thus aren't
>  recognized as "proper" speakers of anything."  The
> people I hear talking
> about this concept are usually teachers and others
> who are quite caught up
> with the idea of speaking properly.
>

>

>
> Stan Anonby
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bernard Spolsky" <spolsb at mail.biu.ac.il>
> To: <lgpolicy-list at ccat.sas.upenn.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 2:01 PM
> Subject: RE: non-nons
>
>
> > I am reminded of the congregants in Joshua
> Fishman's synagogue who were so
> > impressed by his knowing the Yiddish word for
> ceiling.
> > Clearly, in these code-mixing situations, many
> plurilinguals feel
> inadequate
> > (as I do in any language other than English, and
> regularly in that too.
> > Bernard Spolsky   spolsb at mail.biu.ac.il
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-lgpolicy-list at ccat.sas.upenn.edu
> > [mailto:owner-lgpolicy-list at ccat.sas.upenn.edu] On
> Behalf Of Aurolyn Luykx
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 6:28 PM
> > To: lgpolicy-list at ccat.sas.upenn.edu
> > Subject: Re: non-nons
> >
> >
> > Hi Stan,
> > I share your skepticism about "non-nons", and also
> the experience of
> hearing
> > the term used to describe indigenous language
> speakers/emerging bilinguals
> > (in Bolivia). But,  often I would hear such
> speakers use it to describe
> > themselves, in the context of their experience of
> being forced (usually in
> > school) to supress their L1, without ever enjoying
> adequate opportunities
> to
> > learn the L2.
> >
> > My sense is that what's really happening with
> > "non-nons" is that they speak non-standard
> varieties
> > of each of their two languages, and thus aren't
> > recognized as "proper" speakers of anything.  On
> the
> > other hand, I'm inclined to give some credence to
> the testimonies of folks
> > who identify THEMSELVES as "non-nons." Of course
> internalized linguistic
> > discrimination can account for some of it, but I
> also knew plenty of folks
> > who didn't feel 100% fluent in Quechua because
> they'd been discouraged
> from
> > speaking it since childhood, and also felt unsure
> in Spanish, in which
> they
> > had quite a limited vocabulary, often used words
> inappropriately, etc.
> Many
> > indigenous parents are pressured into using a
> fairly rudimentary L2 to
> > communicate with their children, with sad
> consequences for both language
> > acquisition and parent-child communication. In any
> case, questions of
> > fluency always need to refer to a specific CONTEXT
> or domain -- even those
> > of my students who were fluent bilinguals had a
> lot of trouble discussing
> > academic topics in Quechua, as well as difficulty
> discussing certain
> > cultural domains in Spanish. Aurolyn Luykx
> >
> > --- Anonby <stan-sandy_anonby at sil.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Interesting.  The "non-nons" sounds like that
> > > article on "semilinguals" in
> > > Sweden.  The idea caught on very well among
> > > non-linguists.  I hear it a lot
> > > here in Brazil to describe the speech of Indians
> who
> > > are shifting to
> > > Portuguese, and I've heard it in Canada do
> describe
> > > Inuit who are shifting
> > > to English.  But I thought subsequent research
> was
> > > never able to prove there
> > > was any such thing as semilingualism.
> > >
> > > Stan Anonby
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Harold F. Schiffman"
> > > <haroldfs at ccat.sas.upenn.edu>
> > > To: "Language Policy-List"
> > > <lgpolicy-list at ccat.sas.upenn.edu>
> > > Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 2:53 PM
> > > Subject: Program enlists Santa Ana parents as
> 'first
> > > teachers'
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/state/la-me-reading6sep06
> > > >
> > > > Language Series Speaks to Families
> > > > Program enlists Santa Ana parents as 'first
> > > teachers' to help their
> > > > children develop skills.
> > > >
> > > > By Joel Rubin
> > > > Times Staff Writer
> > > >
> > > > September 6, 2004
> > > >
> > > > As he has done twice a week for months,
> 3-year-old
> > > David Damasio nestled
> > > > himself between his mother and Ines Victor on
> the
> > > family couch in a
> > > > cramped Santa Ana apartment. Victor opened a
> > > children's book and began
> > > > reading in Spanish to the wide-eyed boy,
> pausing
> > > frequently to gently
> > > > pepper him with questions about the story
> line.
> > > "Rojo, gris!"  red, gray
> > > > David said in his native tongue, pointing to
> > > colored hats on the page.
> > > >
> > > > Throughout, Victor kept an eye on Sonia,
> David's
> > > mother, to ensure she was
> > > > paying attention. She pressed the quiet woman
> to
> > > mimic her and ask David
> > > > questions. In coming years, when David enters
> > > Santa Ana's public schools,
> > > > he probably will be taught entirely in
> English. To
> > > prepare him for that
> > > > day, he and his mother are working with Victor
> as
> > > part of an unusual
> > > > outreach program rooted in a city with one of
> the
> > > country's most
> > > > concentrated Latino immigrant populations.
> > > >
> > > > Started four years ago by UC Irvine cognitive
> > > scientist Virginia Mann,
> > > > HABLA helps impoverished Latino immigrant
> parents
> > > who often don't know how
> > > > to build their young children's language
> skills.
> > > "Parents are the first
> > > > teachers, but a lot of these parents don't
> know
>
=== message truncated ===

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