'Status' drives extinction of languages

Mon Feb 18 16:02:31 UTC 2008

I agree:  I have stayed out of this discussion because I am happy to see
others doing it, and I also welcome this on the list--we used to have more
of it when the membership was smaller, but then we had a period of
"drought".

HS

On Feb 17, 2008 10:48 PM, Dennis Baron <debaron at uiuc.edu> wrote:

> And frankly, I'd love to see more discussion like this on this list, since
> most of the news-related posts are provocative and in need of unpacking and
> analysis.  Anyone can subscribe to google news (though Hal seems to have a
> lot more luck than I do in getting useful language news out of Google -- I
> get more by searching Lexis/Nexis--I must not be putting in the right
> keywords), and I for one greatly appreciate the aggregating function of this
> list.  But let's talk more, too. This is what makes it fun, after all, not
> to mention professional.
> Dennis
>
>
>  On Feb 17, 2008, at 12:10 PM, Stan & Sandy Anonby wrote:
>
> Hi Christina,
>
> You're welcome.
>
> OK, you're right in making a distinction.
>
> 1) Earlier in the conversation, we were talking about two dueling
> languages, of more or less equal status duking it out. In that case, the one
> with higher status would last longer.
>
> 2) My examples were of two very low status languages against one huge
> language. In my case, the ramifications of status are different. Right?
>
> Take care,
>
> Stan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Christina Paulston <paulston+ at pitt.edu>
> *To:* lgpolicy-list at ccat.sas.upenn.edu
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 14, 2008 5:50 PM
> *Subject:* Re: 'Status' drives extinction of languages
>
> Stan,   Thank you for the article, all printed out already,
> Here I think youneed  to be concerned about whose status relative to whom.
>  Both your tribes have lower social status than the speakers of the main
> language, Portuguese and you see evidence of that exactly with your Surui.
>  Then you have to look for other reasons they have become bilingual faster
> than the other tribe: belief systems, geographical distance, motivation in
> the form of jobs, etc.  Let's not forget that lge shift is multi-causal
> after all.  Christina
>  On Feb 14, 2008, at 2:39 PM, Stan & Sandy Anonby wrote:
>
>  I can think of examples where the higher status tribes assimmilate much
> more quickly than the lower status tribes. I'm talking here about status in
> their own eyes as well as in the eyes of outsiders. I'll give you one
> example. In Brazil, there are two tribes living more or less in the same
> area. The Surui are more outgoing and have think more highly of themselves
> than the Nambiquara. The Nambiquara have had contact with outsiders since
> the 1930's, while the Surui were contacted in the early 1970's. The Surui
> are much smaller numerically. Yet they are more bilingual than the
> Nambiquara. In fact, in Brazil and in Canada, (the two places I've worked)
> it seems to me that it is almost always the case that the lower status
> families, individuals, and tribes tend to retain their language longest.
>
> Stan
>
> ---- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* Laurence D. Krute <krutel at mville.edu>
> *To:* lgpolicy-list at ccat.sas.upenn.edu ; lgpolicy-list at ccat.sas.upenn.edu
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 14, 2008 2:16 PM
> *Subject:* Re: 'Status' drives extinction of languages
>
> The process of community language shift are much more complex than the
> brief version of the article seems to indicate.
>
> Felecia's astute comment can be generalized; 'status' and other
> attitudinal factors matter a great deal, but status *according to whom*
> matters a great deal more, but perceived functionality, among many other
> factors, matters far more that that.
>
> Piaroa (Amazonas Territory, Venezuela, linguistic genetic isolate
> basically, possibly 13,000) strongly feel that their society, customs, and
> language are quite uniquely wonderful, special, and correct.  However,
> Piaroa are no more monolingual in Piaroa or even more bilingual in Piaroa
> and Spanish (as opposed to monolingual Spanish) than are surrounding
> indigenous groups, in the face of the equally strong beliefs to the contrary
> (that the language, customs, and people are bascially subhuman) by those
> whose views matter--local Spanish-speakers....(That is, Piaroa speakers are
> still giving up Piaroa.)
>
> Larry
>
>
> Dr. Laurence Krute
> Associate Dean--Graduate Advising
> School of Education
> Manhattanville College
> 2900 Purchase Street Purchase, NY 10577
> voice:914 323-5366
> fax:914 323-5493
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Felecia Briscoe" <Felecia.Briscoe at utsa.edu>
> Sent 2/14/2008 12:03:47 PM
> To: lgpolicy-list at ccat.sas.upenn.edu, lgpolicy-list at ccat.sas.upenn.edu
> Subject: RE: 'Status' drives extinction of languages
>
> Doesn't status really mean the language spoken by the group that controls
> the most resources?
>
> Felecia
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-lgpolicy-list at ccat.sas.upenn.edu on behalf of Stan & Sandy
> Anonby
> Sent: Thu 2/14/2008 11:54 AM
> To: lgpolicy-list at ccat.sas.upenn.edu
> Subject: Re: 'Status' drives extinction of languages
>
> Interesting. Sounds like it's broadly researched.  I've got a couple of
> comments.
>
> 1) I wonder how widely the status argument can be applied. For instance,
> the
> article says the researchers point out that bilingual societies do exist:
> "But the histories of countries where two languages co-exist today
> generally
> involve split populations that lived without significant interaction,
> effectively in separate, monolingual societies. Only recently have these
> communities begun to mix, allowing language competition to begin."
>
> Maybe the populations lived without significant interaction because the
> status difference was so great. Maybe mixing happened recently only
> because
> the lower status language began to gain prestige.
>
> 2) I believe that the increased status of French in Quebec may have helped
> in creating a larger percentage of speakers there. However, I think larger
> factors included the flight of English speakers and large immigration from
> Francophone countries.
>
> Stan Anonby
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Harold Schiffman" <hfsclpp at gmail.com>
> To: "lp" <lgpolicy-list at ccat.sas.upenn.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 11:27 AM
> Subject: 'Status' drives extinction of languages
>
>
> > 'Status' drives extinction of languages
> > Bob Beale
> > ABC Science Online
> >
> > Thursday, 21 August 2003
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > A language's status in society is the best way to predict if it is
> > headed for extinction Languages evolve and compete with each other
> > much like plants and animals, but those driven to extinction are
> > almost always tongues with a low social status, U.S. research shows.
> > The social status of a language is the most accurate way of predicting
> > whether it will survive, argue researchers in a paper appearing today
> > in the journal, Nature . They also suggest that active intervention to
> > boost the status of rare and endangered languages can save them.
> > "Thousands of the world's languages are vanishing at an alarming rate,
> > with 90% of them being expected to disappear with the current
> > generation," warned Dr Daniel Abrams and Professor Steven Strogatz,
> > both of Cornell University in New York.
> >
> > The pair have developed a simple mathematical model of language
> > competition to explain how dialects such as Welsh, Scottish Gaelic and
> > Quechua - the most common surviving indigenous language in the
> > Americas - have lost out to more dominant tongues.
> > The model is based on data they collected on the number of speakers of
> > endangered languages - in 42 regions of Peru, Scotland, Wales,
> > Bolivia, Ireland and Alsaçe-Lorraine - over time. All have been in
> > steep decline over the past century or so, and the model suggests that
> > Scottish Gaelic and Quechua will be close to extinct by about 2030.
> >
> > Previous models of language dynamics have focused on the transmission
> > and evolution of syntax, grammar or other structural properties of a
> > language itself. Yet by comparing various influences that help to
> > explain the steadily declining numbers of speakers of each language,
> > Abrams and Strogatz singled out status as the single most significant
> > factor that could predict its extinction threat.
> >
> > "Quechua, for example, still has many speakers in Huanuco, Peru," they
> > note. "But its low status is driving a rapid shift to Spanish, which
> > leads to an unfortunate situation in which a child cannot communicate
> > with his or her grandparents." A language's fate generally depends on
> > both its number of speakers and its perceived status, the latter
> > usually reflecting the social or economic opportunities afforded to
> > its speakers, they said. When two languages are in competition, the
> > one that offers the greatest opportunities to its speakers will
> > usually prevail.
> >
> > The researchers point out that bilingual societies do exist: "But the
> > histories of countries where two languages co-exist today generally
> > involve split populations that lived without significant interaction,
> > effectively in separate, monolingual societies. Only recently have
> > these communities begun to mix, allowing language competition to
> > begin." They urged active intervention to slow the global rate of
> > language decline, pointing out that their model also predicts that
> > higher status will keep a language alive. They also cite a real-life
> > instance where this has happened: "The example of Québec French
> > demonstrates that language decline can be slowed by strategies such as
> > policy-making, education and advertising, in essence increasing an
> > endangered language's status."
> > Similar measures may make a difference elsewhere, they argued.
> >
> > http://www.clipclip.org/Bevsiem/clips/detail/66166
> >
> > --
> > **************************************
> > N.b.: Listing on the lgpolicy-list is merely intended as a service to
> > its members
> > and implies neither approval, confirmation nor agreement by the owner
> > or sponsor of
> > the list as to the veracity of a message's contents. Members who
> > disagree with a
> > message are encouraged to post a rebuttal. (H. Schiffman, Moderator)
> > *******************************************
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

-- 
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

Harold F. Schiffman

Professor Emeritus of
Dravidian Linguistics and Culture
Dept. of South Asia Studies
University of Pennsylvania
Philadelphia, PA 19104-6305

Phone:  (215) 898-7475
Fax:  (215) 573-2138

Email:  haroldfs at gmail.com
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~haroldfs/

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