[lg policy] NYTimes.com: Who's White?
Stan Anonby
stan-sandy_anonby at SIL.ORG
Sat Apr 3 04:10:18 UTC 2010
Hi Francis and Christina,
I'm out of my league. I haven't thought about the question much. It just
popped into my head after reading about the Greeks and Circassians in
Painter's book.
Since I live in Brazil, I can kind of make a stab how Obama is perceived
here. Black. Having said that, the alchemy of race here is different than
the States. Mixed marriages are extremely common. There isn't any other
cultural marker for Black people. In the States, there are many markers -
dialect, manerisms, location. There's none of that here.
Stan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Francis Hult" <francis.hult at utsa.edu>
To: "Language Policy List" <lgpolicy-list at groups.sas.upenn.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 1:27 PM
Subject: RE: [lg policy] NYTimes.com: Who's White?
Here's a good book related to this topic:
Jacobson, M.F. (1999). Whiteness of a different color: European immigrants
and the alchemy of race. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press.
http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/JACWHI.html
Francis
--
Francis M. Hult, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Department of Bicultural-Bilingual Studies
University of Texas at San Antonio
Web: http://faculty.coehd.utsa.edu/fhult/
<http://www.springer.com/education+%26+language/linguistics/book/978-90-481-9135-2>
________________________________
From: lgpolicy-list-bounces at groups.sas.upenn.edu on behalf of Christina
Paulston
Sent: Fri 4/2/2010 2:48 PM
To: Language Policy List
Subject: Re: [lg policy] NYTimes.com: Who's White?
Stan,
You don't listen - Rod wants to know why you ask such a question,
for
what purpose. It is not just an innocent question or a question of
fact, as both you and I treated it. Thank you Rod for pointing it
out. I think on second thought I would say it is a question of
ascription of perception. The Japanese were white in RSA. And I as
Swedish would not even think of whiteness in connection with SE
Asians. What would President Obama be perceived as in Brazil?
Christina
On Apr 1, 2010, at 9:02 PM, Stan Anonby wrote:
> Hi!
>
> What I was referring to was Nell Painter's book. She said the
> ancient Greeks considered the Circassians (Caucasians) to be
> inferior. By association, lighter skin was also considered a mark of
> inferiority. I was just wondering if there were places where that
> was the prevailing sentiment today.
>
> Stan
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "R K Hopson" <hopson at duq.edu>
> To: "Language Policy List" <lgpolicy-list at groups.sas.upenn.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 1:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [lg policy] NYTimes.com: Who's White?
>
>
>> Hardly would I associate and generalize these arguments listed
>> below to
>> everyone. We don't find folk in southern Africa referring to lighter
>> skinned San or other Khoe people as white.
>>
>> Or, maybe I'm missing the argument thread below. What argument are
>> you all
>> referring to? Are you taking the argument that the lighter one is
>> the
>> more they associate or are associated with whiteness?
>>
>> Whiteness, if there's reason to consider in that part of the world
>> (southern Africa) has the history of Bantu education and apartheid to
>> thank for its definitions. As such, honorary whiteness status was
>> afforded to certain Indian and Asian groups with economic and
>> symbolic
>> power.
>>
>>> I wonder about Botswana, where there are Bantu and lighter skinned
>>> San.
>>>
>>> Stan
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Christina Paulston
>>> To: Language Policy List
>>> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [lg policy] NYTimes.com: Who's White?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I imagine there will be an argument about this but the Rif
>>> Mountains in
>>> Morocco have light skinned, red-haired Berbers, and the Arabs tend
>>> to
>>> consider themselves "better". I don't know if that has changed
>>> with the
>>> recent revitalization movements of Berber languages and ethnic
>>> groups.
>>> Any Moroccan opinions? Christina
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 26, 2010, at 6:24 PM, Stan Anonby wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Is there anywhere in the world today where lighter skinned
>>> people are
>>> considered "lower"?
>>>
>>> Stan
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: haroldfs at gmail.com
>>> To: lgpolicy-list at groups.sas.upenn.edu
>>> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 9:02 AM
>>> Subject: [lg policy] NYTimes.com: Who's White?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This page was sent to you by: haroldfs at gmail.com
>>> Message from sender:
>>> The History of White People
>>>
>>> BOOKS / SUNDAY BOOK REVIEW | March 28, 2010
>>> Who's White?
>>> By LINDA GORDON
>>> Nell Irvin Painter's accessible study shows that
>>> deciding who is white has always been heavily influenced
>>> by class and culture.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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