[lg policy] Canada: Employees lose Via Rail language policy challenge

Wed Jun 16 05:26:26 UTC 2010

I agree witn you, too, Anthea. I don't think there is a wide variety in ability of people to learn languages. I think it's mostly a matter of just putting in the hours in language learning. So, it's not a matter of ability. It's primarily a matter of interest.

Stan

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 02:34:07 +0100
 Anthea Fraser Gupta <A.F.Gupta at leeds.ac.uk> wrote:
>I think one of the big problems is that the target is always learning to speak a language 'fluently', which is hard going (and needs big motivation and opportunity). I don't agree that there are big personal differences as we see that there are many countries where pretty well everyone speaks 2 or 3 languages.
>
>What I would like to see is more encouragement for learning to hack it in a language. As in sport, we can't all be in the Olympics but we can all enjoy a bit of exercise.
>
>Anthea
>*     *     *     *     *
>Anthea Fraser Gupta (Dr)
>School of English, University of Leeds, LS2 9JT
><www.leeds.ac.uk/english/staff/afg>
>*     *     *     *     *
>
>________________________________________
>From: lgpolicy-list-bounces at groups.sas.upenn.edu [lgpolicy-list-bounces at groups.sas.upenn.edu] On Behalf Of Stan-sandy Anonby [stan-sandy_anonby at sil.org]
>Sent: 16 June 2010 00:01
>To: Language Policy List; Dave Sayers
>Subject: Re: [lg policy] Canada: Employees lose Via Rail language       policy  challenge
>
>Good points, Dave,
>
>You're right. Language learning is difficult. Few people like language learning.
>
>Just that the  French people, despite their anti-English laws, are far more bilingual than the anglophones. It's just as difficult for them to learn English as it is for us to learn French. And Quebec's laws make it very hard for them to go to English immersion schools. In English Canada, French immersion schools are free and ubiquitous. Yet Quebecois often learn English, and we very seldom speak French.
>
>Stan
>
>On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 14:57:31 +0100
> Dave Sayers <dave.sayers at cantab.net> wrote:
>>Tricky one this, and echoes many similar cases around the world. My main
>>problem (from a purely academic point of view!) is the assumption that
>>language learning is easy enough to do - and, more to the point, equally
>>easy for everyone. I'm not just talking about the 'critical period' of
>>language acquisition, but that some people are cognitively not as well
>>equipped for learning second languages, either due to specific learning
>>difficulties (which often go undiagnosed, e.g. dyslexia) or just through
>>regular variation in the ability to learn languages, not to mention
>>confidence in performing your newly acquired language.
>>
>>There's also a class issue of sorts here. Even if employees are
>>supported in learning French (or whatever other language in other
>>cases), I'm fairly sure there would be homework. Would that be easier or
>>harder in a poor household, where there might be all sorts of other
>>pressures? What about people who have responsibilities outside their
>>working hours, like unpaid care? These kinds of details can be glossed over.
>>
>>Just to be clear, I'm not arguing on either side of this argument. As I
>>understand it there are a good deal of monolingual francophones in
>>Canada, which does create a more convincing case for requiring French
>>language proficiency in certain jobs (unlike other cases where that
>>rationale is missing, e.g. Wales). Still, I'd stick my neck out and
>>suggest it's not always about disinterest or distaste towards language
>>learning (though no doubt that's can be a factor).
>>
>>Dave
>>
>>
>>--
>>Dr. Dave Sayers
>>Honorary Research Fellow
>>School of the Environment and Society
>>Swansea University
>>d.sayers at swansea.ac.uk
>>http://swansea.academia.edu/DaveSayers
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On -10/01/37 20:59,  wrote:
>>> <pre wrap>
>>> I'm Canadian. But on an emotional level, I just don't understand why
>>> my fellow anglos fight so hard not to speak French. I'm sure Via gives
>>> its employees all sorts of opportunity to learn the language. Why
>>> isn't this viewed as a boon, a privilege?
>>>
>>> I guess it's for two reasons:
>>> 1) Most people dislike learning languages that they really don't need
>>> to use.
>>> 2) Most people are only motivated to learn languages higher up the
>>> prestige ladder.
>>>
>>> Stan Anonby
>>>
>>> On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 12:18:31 -0400
>>>  Harold Schiffman <hfsclpp at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> </pre><blockquote type=cite><pre wrap>
>>> Employees lose Via Rail language policy challenge
>>>
>>> James Kosowan/Canwest News Service
>>>
>>>
>>> Wednesday, Sept. 9, 2009
>>>
>>> OTTAWA -- Five Via Rail employees have lost a court battle claiming
>>> they should not have to speak French to work on routes in Western
>>> Canada because there are already enough bilingual employees to pick up
>>> the slack. Federal Court Justice Luc Martineau dismissed the veteran
>>> employees’ quest for financial compensation for the wages they say
>>> they lost because they were denied the most senior service jobs. The
>>> unilingual employees, who have all worked at Via for 24 years or more,
>>> are based in Winnipeg and Vancouver.
>>>
>>> The workers unsuccessfully challenged Via’s requirement for
>>> bilingualism for onboard service staff on the Western Transcontinental
>>> route between Toronto and Vancouver, which mainly serves Canadian and
>>> foreign tourists. “Via is an important instrument of government policy
>>> in transportation, employment and promotion of linguistic duality and
>>> bilingualism in Canada,” wrote Justice Martineau. A francophone
>>> travelling in Western Canada should have the same entitlement to
>>> service and emergency instructions in French, just as a unilingual
>>> anglophone travelling in Quebec would expect service in English,
>>> Justice Martineau said.
>>>
>>> The rulings were released Wednesday, less than one month after the
>>> railway came under fire following complaints emergency evacuation
>>> instructions had only been given in English, angering some francophone
>>> passengers travelling from Toronto to Ottawa. Via, a federal Crown
>>> corporation, adopted the bilingualism requirement for new employees in
>>> 1986 and the staffers say they have missed out on promotions and some
>>> were not given French language training to achieve bilingual status.
>>> They also argued that 75% of employees on the Western Transcontinental
>>> are bilingual, which ensures services can be provided in both official
>>> languages without affecting the futures of the unilingual workers. The
>>> judge noted that Via disputes the number.
>>>
>>> The employees were seeking, among other things, monetary compensation
>>> for lost wages and pension benefits and damages for what some
>>> described as “humiliation and embarrassment.”  The judge handed down
>>> five separate rulings, but he noted they affected dozens of other
>>> complainants. The five employees who challenged Via’s language policy
>>> in court were Mark Collins, Brian Norton, Margaret Temple, and Wendy
>>> Seesahai, who are all based in Winnipeg, and Brenda Bonner, who lives
>>> in Vancouver. They were seeking varying amounts in compensation and
>>> other damages. The highest claim came from Seesahai, who wanted
>>> $150,000.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.nationalpost.com/news/Employees+lose+Rail+language+policy+challenge/1976879/story.html#ixzz0qkaxeR94
>>>
>>> --
>>> **************************************
>>> N.b.: Listing on the lgpolicy-list is merely intended as a service to
>>> its members
>>> and implies neither approval, confirmation nor agreement by the owner
>>> or sponsor of the list as to the veracity of a message's contents.
>>> Members who disagree with a message are encouraged to post a rebuttal,
>>> and to write directly to the original sender of any offensive message.
>>> A copy of this may be forwarded to this list as well.  (H. Schiffman,
>>> Moderator)
>>>
>>> For more information about the lgpolicy-list, go to
>>> https://groups.sas.upenn.edu/mailman/
>>> listinfo/lgpolicy-list
>>> *******************************************
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> This message came to you by way of the lgpolicy-list mailing list
>>> lgpolicy-list at groups.sas.upenn.edu
>>> To manage your subscription unsubscribe, or arrange digest format:
>>> https://groups.sas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/lgpolicy-list
>>> </pre></blockquote><pre wrap>
>>>
>>>
>>> </pre></body>
>>> </html>
>>> </html>
>>_______________________________________________
>>This message came to you by way of the lgpolicy-list mailing list
>>lgpolicy-list at groups.sas.upenn.edu
>>To manage your subscription unsubscribe, or arrange digest format: https://groups.sas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/lgpolicy-list
>
>_______________________________________________
>This message came to you by way of the lgpolicy-list mailing list
>lgpolicy-list at groups.sas.upenn.edu
>To manage your subscription unsubscribe, or arrange digest format: https://groups.sas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/lgpolicy-list
>_______________________________________________
>This message came to you by way of the lgpolicy-list mailing list
>lgpolicy-list at groups.sas.upenn.edu
>To manage your subscription unsubscribe, or arrange digest format: https://groups.sas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/lgpolicy-list

_______________________________________________
This message came to you by way of the lgpolicy-list mailing list
lgpolicy-list at groups.sas.upenn.edu
To manage your subscription unsubscribe, or arrange digest format: https://groups.sas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/lgpolicy-list