[lg policy] RE: lgpolicy-list Digest, Vol 13, Issue 37

Christina Paulston paulston at PITT.EDU
Sat May 22 18:20:21 UTC 2010


Mea culpa, mea culpa.  I will refrain from any further ad hominem (ad  
feminem?) attacks but my ill tempered lines were never intended as  
such, only as ( very bad, I agree) jokes.  Black listing is hardly a  
cure for censorship. Etc.  But humour translates poorly across  
cultures  -- how about that as a topic for discourse analysis.   
Christina





On May 22, 2010, at 8:58 AM, Harold Schiffman wrote:

> Dear Kerry and all,
>
> I am in favor of interrogating the discourses, as I have stated
> earlier. We don't have a policy of NOT
> doing so, so there's no problem with it.  I would like to avoid ad
> hominem responses, and I would
> strongly recommend that we respond to the *original* message sender
> (i.e. the BNP, the US English people),
> whoever originated the odious message that I or others have forwarded
> to the list.  I also don't object
> to such a rejoinder being sent to this list, too, especially if it
> will clear things up as to who the BNP (or
> whoever) are.  It's true that a lot of Americans don't know what the
> BNP says or does; it hasn't reached
> our "radar screens".
>
> I think also the list and its archives are a resource that ought to be
> exploited more.  I don't get that everyone
> uses the archives (since I sometimes get people asking me how to
> access them) so I'd like to recommend
> we consult them more often.  See if there are topics that can be
> presented to a class there; encourage
> students to use them for research papers or whatever. (To access the
> archives, to go http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/plc/clpp
> and click on "listserv".  This page will tell you how to access the
> "archives".)
>
> HS
>
> HS
>
> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 8:55 PM, Kerry Taylor-Leech
> <Kerry.Taylor-Leech at usq.edu.au> wrote:
>>
>> That's just it Gareth. We don't analyse any discourses on this  
>> list. Articles are generally posted here without comment . That's  
>> because the list operates as a sort of resource or repository for  
>> various discourses as you say, and not all of them to our liking.  
>> There are two issues really: The first is the question of whether  
>> to post up inflammatory material like the BNP stuff at all. The  
>> second, is whether we critically interrogate the ideas/discourses  
>> in this sort of material.
>> The general consensus seems to be that we want to see this sort of  
>> thing on the list. It's useful because we can't always find it  
>> anywhere else. I'm not saying we should censor this list. I'm  
>> saying either we develop a statement to make it clear what this  
>> list is about or we do actually get down to the business of  
>> interrogating the discourses. Last rejoinder from me.
>> Kerry
>>
>> Dr Kerry Taylor-Leech
>> Lecturer in Applied Linguistics
>> Faculty of Education
>> University of Southern Queensland
>> ________________________________________
>> From: lgpolicy-list-bounces at groups.sas.upenn.edu [lgpolicy-list-bounces at groups.sas.upenn.edu 
>> ] On Behalf Of lgpolicy-list-request at groups.sas.upenn.edu [lgpolicy-list-request at groups.sas.upenn.edu 
>> ]
>> Sent: Saturday, 22 May 2010 2:00 AM
>> To: lgpolicy-list at groups.sas.upenn.edu
>> Subject: lgpolicy-list Digest, Vol 13, Issue 37
>>
>> Send lgpolicy-list mailing list submissions to
>>        lgpolicy-list at groups.sas.upenn.edu
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>        https://groups.sas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/lgpolicy-list
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>        lgpolicy-list-request at groups.sas.upenn.edu
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>        lgpolicy-list-owner at groups.sas.upenn.edu
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of lgpolicy-list digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>   1. Re: lgpolicy-list Digest, Vol 13, Issue 36 (Gareth Price)
>>   2. Lie to me: Research shows young liars destined for         
>> greatness?
>>      (Dennis Baron)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 20:31:40 -0400
>> From: Gareth Price <gareth.price at duke.edu>
>> Subject: [lg policy] Re: lgpolicy-list Digest, Vol 13, Issue 36
>> To: lgpolicy-list at groups.sas.upenn.edu
>> Message-ID:
>>        <AANLkTikuZU80P0qqFKPu6IbM9HWeaa8WPRY6knsZLA2l at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> I wasn't going to chime in on this, but here's my two cents, for  
>> what it's
>> worth. Kerry - I think you're getting things a little mixed up  
>> here. For
>> starters, much (though not all) language policy analysis is  
>> situated -
>> broadly - within the church of discourse analysis. It's not  
>> possible - or at
>> least it's intellectually sloppy - just to pick and choose the  
>> discourses we
>> like, and fit our arguments, and discard those that we don't, and  
>> don't.
>> Disregarding discourses we don't like to hear about is also quite  
>> dangerous:
>> we can put our heads in the sand, but these are discourses that  
>> *will*
>> operate  - in public spheres and private - regardless of whether  
>> they appear
>> on this list. We have a hard enough time trying to talk about  
>> social justice
>> and equality and rights - our task is made very much harder if we  
>> have no
>> idea what our audience (our students, laypeople, policymakers)  
>> actually
>> think.
>>
>> At the end of the day, these discourses work *precisely* because  
>> they make
>> sense to someone, somewhere. Ideologies and discourses aren't some
>> 'falsehood' counter-posed to some objective 'truth'. Language policy
>> researchers who believe that 'everyone should be able to speak  
>> whatever they
>> want' are as ideologically encumbered as the BNP who think that  
>> language -
>> and race - should be the defining criteria of citizenship, democratic
>> participation and basic human rights.
>>
>> Our task is to try and unpick what these discourses mean, and *how*  
>> they
>> operate, not referee their acceptability or otherwise. I'm going to  
>> use a
>> crass analogy here, but I think it works: I can't imagine many  
>> surgeons are
>> very fond of cancer, but it wouldn't be very helpful if the field of
>> medicine en masse decided to believe that cancer didn't exist.
>>
>> It's not, either, necessarily that BNP discourses have become more
>> 'acceptable' and they are posted here 'without comment'. I'm not  
>> sure that's
>> the whole dynamic here: what seems to be clear is that this has  
>> definitely
>> raised the hackles of at least a few people here. I don't think  
>> anyone here
>> finds them 'acceptable' or thinks that this is 'free airtime' or
>> uncritically accepts them. In fact, the list serves an extremely  
>> important
>> purpose *by the very fact* that it is something of a repository for
>> counter-discourses - and acts as a good barometer for what's really  
>> going
>> on, out there - on the streets. I also don't think there needs to  
>> be a
>> statement 'condoning material that encourages race hate, conflict and
>> discrimination' - I think that's a given. But what I do think we  
>> need to do
>> is critically interrogate these ideas - and try and understand why  
>> - for
>> some people - they make a whole lot of sense.
>>
>>
>> Dr. Gareth Price
>> Visiting Assistant Professor
>> CSEEES/Linguistics Program
>> Duke University
>> Durham, NC
>> 27708-2960
>>
>>>
>>> Anthea
>>> Your response seems contradictory to me. First you jump on the the  
>>> list
>>> member who dared to question why material was being taken direct  
>>> from the
>>> website of an extreme right-wing organisation which affliates  
>>> itself openly
>>> with Nazism. You want this member not just excluded from the list  
>>> but
>>> blacklisted as well. Then you want everyone to be open and  
>>> unpolitical and
>>> you seem to be saying that we can't differentiate a fascist  
>>> organisation
>>> from any other group. These are old arguments - they were used to  
>>> stall anti
>>> racist movements in the UK years ago. Thankfully the local  
>>> communities
>>> didn't listen to them and there was a time when groups like the  
>>> BNP found it
>>> hard to spread their lies and hate. In posting on their materials  
>>> for them -
>>> for free and without comment - you are doing organisations like  
>>> the BNP a
>>> big favour. It's not about being politically correct or not  
>>> offending
>>> people. It's about being careful not to give free airtime to these  
>>> dangerous
>>> organisations. It would be!
>>>  quite possible for this list to have a clear statement of its  
>>> values and
>>> an explanation of its practices. It would make it clear that the  
>>> list does
>>> not condone material that encourages race hate, conflict and  
>>> discrimination.
>>> Kerry
>>>
>>> Dr Kerry Taylor-Leech
>>> Lecturer in Applied Linguistics
>>> Faculty of Education
>>> University of Southern Queensland
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 09:31:04 +1000
>>> From: Kerry Taylor-Leech <Kerry.Taylor-Leech at usq.edu.au>
>>> Subject: [lg policy] RE: Policy on publishing racist and fascist
>>>        material on     the list
>>> To: "lgpolicy-list at groups.sas.upenn.edu"
>>>        <lgpolicy-list at groups.sas.upenn.edu>
>>> Message-ID:
>>>         
>>> <FF76F99476D1B84DB0A8A96DC7AA53DA2E5158BB20 at EXCHMB.usq.edu.au>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> I agree that it is useful (if sickening) to read these types of  
>>> article so
>>> that we can "know our enemies" but with this kind of fascist  
>>> material one
>>> can never be complacent. Any exposure of this kind of "literature"  
>>> provides
>>> it with oxygen and airtime. These organisations know what they are  
>>> doing
>>> when they write their inflammatory material and they aim to insert
>>> thmelseves into debates anywhere they can.
>>> I think it is quite wrong to attack those list readers who  
>>> question the
>>> posting of this stuff on this list. Fascist material cannot appear  
>>> on the
>>> list uncriticised. Doing so provides these organisations with  
>>> another
>>> platform. Let's not forget that the NP ran for a seat in the  
>>> recent British
>>> elections in a constituency where they would have once been run  
>>> off the
>>> streets. That's how acceptable their ideologies have become. Yes  
>>> post this
>>> garbage up but not without a loud and clear statement that this  
>>> list does
>>> not support racist and fascist ideologies.
>>> Kerry
>>>
>>> Dr Kerry Taylor-Leech
>>> Lecturer in Applied Linguistics
>>> Faculty of Education
>>> University of Southern Queensland
>>> ________________________________________
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: lgpolicy-list-bounces+a.f.gupta=leeds.ac.uk at groups.sas.upenn.edu 
>>> [lgpolicy-list-bounces+a.f.gupta=
>>> leeds.ac.uk at groups.sas.upenn.edu] On Behalf Of Kerry Taylor-Leech [
>>> Kerry.Taylor-Leech at usq.edu.au]
>>> Sent: 20 May 2010 00:31
>>> To: lgpolicy-list at groups.sas.upenn.edu
>>> Subject: [lg policy] RE: Policy on publishing racist and fascist  
>>> material
>>> on    the list
>>>
>>> I agree that it is useful (if sickening) to read these types of  
>>> article so
>>> that we can "know our enemies" but with this kind of fascist  
>>> material one
>>> can never be complacent. Any exposure of this kind of "literature"  
>>> provides
>>> it with oxygen and airtime. These organisations know what they are  
>>> doing
>>> when they write their inflammatory material and they aim to insert
>>> thmelseves into debates anywhere they can.
>>> I think it is quite wrong to attack those list readers who  
>>> question the
>>> posting of this stuff on this list. Fascist material cannot appear  
>>> on the
>>> list uncriticised. Doing so provides these organisations with  
>>> another
>>> platform. Let's not forget that the NP ran for a seat in the  
>>> recent British
>>> elections in a constituency where they would have once been run  
>>> off the
>>> streets. That's how acceptable their ideologies have become. Yes  
>>> post this
>>> garbage up but not without a loud and clear statement that this  
>>> list does
>>> not support racist and fascist ideologies.
>>> Kerry
>>>
>>> Dr Kerry Taylor-Leech
>>> Lecturer in Applied Linguistics
>>> Faculty of Education
>>> University of Southern Queensland
>>> ________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 15:58:36 -0700
>>> From: "Stan Anonby" <stan-sandy_anonby at sil.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [lg policy] The Colonisation of Britain Continues:  
>>> 16% of
>>>        PrimarySchool Children Do not Speak English as Their Home  
>>> Language
>>> To: "Language Policy List" <lgpolicy-list at groups.sas.upenn.edu>
>>> Message-ID: <D5DBAAD41FAF403B9F0098C0C3151D13 at silq5ubwwaom4w>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252";
>>>        reply-type=response
>>>
>>> Hah!
>>>
>>> Great suggestion, Christina!
>>>
>>> Stan
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Christina Paulston" <paulston at pitt.edu>
>>> To: "Language Policy List" <lgpolicy-list at groups.sas.upenn.edu>
>>> Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 11:08 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [lg policy] The Colonisation of Britain Continues:  
>>> 16% of
>>> PrimarySchool Children Do not Speak English as Their Home Language
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hal,
>>>> I have a better suggestion.  Just cut off from the list and  
>>>> blacklist
>>>  for
>>>> the future people who just want their opinions
>>>> published (like whoever Davyth and others are) and who don't   
>>>> understand
>>>> that it is crucial to know what all opinions are.
>>>> Then we don't have to waste your time repeatedly with this  
>>>> stuff.   Keep
>>>> up the good work -- I and my students are most grateful to you,
>>>  Christina
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: https://groups.sas.upenn.edu/mailman/private/lgpolicy-list/attachments/20100520/3eadf685/attachment.html
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 19:51:26 -0500
>> From: Dennis Baron <debaron at illinois.edu>
>> Subject: [lg policy] Lie to me: Research shows young liars destined
>>        for     greatness?
>> To: language language policy <lgpolicy- 
>> list at groups.sas.upenn.edu>,      ads
>>        ads <ads-l at listserv.uga.edu>, wpa <wpa-l at asu.edu>
>> Message-ID: <494366EF-F7F0-47C5-98AC-E00AF82EEAA4 at illinois.edu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>>
>> There's a new post on the Web of Language:
>>
>> Lie to me: Research shows young liars destined for greatness?
>>
>> A Canadian research team has found that toddlers who lie could
>> actually wind up more successful than those who tell the truth.
>>
>> At least that?s what the BBC claims in its report on a new study  
>> which
>> proves that learning to lie represents a ?developmental milestone?  
>> and
>> that ?the complex brain processes involved in formulating a lie are  
>> an
>> indicator of a child?s early intelligence.? And the London Times
>> gleefully adds, ?Scientists have discovered that a child who claims
>> ?the dog ate my homework? may have a future career in the City
>> (London?s version of Wall Street).?
>>
>> Newspapers, TV, and blogs are having a field day repeating the story
>> that young liars have what it takes to succeed later in life, as if
>> precocious prevaricators could explain everything from the subprime
>> mortgage d?bacle to the Iraq War, the impeachments of Bill Clinton  
>> and
>> Rod Blagojevich, and Al Franken?s critique of liars on the extreme
>> right.
>>
>> But it turns out that most of the reporting on this study of lies and
>> the lying children who tell them isn?t very accurate. To put it
>> bluntly, the media are lying about the research. Whatever you may  
>> have
>> read in the papers, developmental psychologists are not claiming that
>> lying is the key to getting ahead.
>>
>> find out what they are claiming -- read the Web of Language http://bit.ly/weblan
>> ____________________
>> Dennis Baron
>> Professor of English and Linguistics
>> Department of English
>> University of Illinois
>> 608 S. Wright St.
>> Urbana, IL 61801
>>
>> office: 217-244-0568
>> fax: 217-333-4321
>>
>> http://www.illinois.edu/goto/debaron
>>
>> read the Web of Language:
>> http://www.illinois.edu/goto/weboflanguage
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: https://groups.sas.upenn.edu/mailman/private/lgpolicy-list/attachments/20100520/7975a9e3/attachment.html
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> This digest came to you by way of the lgpolicy-list mailing list:
>> lgpolicy-list at groups.sas.upenn.edu
>> To manage your subscription, visit this web page:
>> https://groups.sas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/lgpolicy-list
>>
>> End of lgpolicy-list Digest, Vol 13, Issue 37
>> *********************************************
>>
>> This email (including any attached files) is confidential and is  
>> for the
>> intended recipient(s) only.  If you received this email by mistake,
>> please, as a courtesy, tell the sender, then delete this email.
>>
>> The views and opinions are the originator's and do not necessarily
>> reflect those of the University of Southern Queensland.  Although all
>> reasonable precautions were taken to ensure that this email  
>> contained no
>> viruses at the time it was sent we accept no liability for any losses
>> arising from its receipt.
>>
>> The University of Southern Queensland is a registered provider of
>> education with the Australian Government (CRICOS Institution Code  
>> No's.
>> QLD 00244B / NSW 02225M)
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> This message came to you by way of the lgpolicy-list mailing list
>> lgpolicy-list at groups.sas.upenn.edu
>> To manage your subscription unsubscribe, or arrange digest format: https://groups.sas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/lgpolicy-list
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
>
> Harold F. Schiffman
>
> Professor Emeritus of
> Dravidian Linguistics and Culture
> Dept. of South Asia Studies
> University of Pennsylvania
> Philadelphia, PA 19104-6305
>
> Phone:  (215) 898-7475
> Fax:  (215) 573-2138
>
> Email:  haroldfs at gmail.com
> http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~haroldfs/
>
> -------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> This message came to you by way of the lgpolicy-list mailing list
> lgpolicy-list at groups.sas.upenn.edu
> To manage your subscription unsubscribe, or arrange digest format: https://groups.sas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/lgpolicy-list

_______________________________________________
This message came to you by way of the lgpolicy-list mailing list
lgpolicy-list at groups.sas.upenn.edu
To manage your subscription unsubscribe, or arrange digest format: https://groups.sas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/lgpolicy-list



More information about the Lgpolicy-list mailing list