[Linganth] Substitute x for y

[Francis M Hult]

Lack of flexibility seems to be central to how fastfood workers are
trained.  I think in 'Fast Food Nation' Schlosser goes into the robotic
nature of working at fastfood establishments, among other adverse working
conditions (such as those reported by a member of a workers movement
related to another famous fastfood chain on this site:
http://www.mwr.org.uk/mcjobs.htm)

I have had many a frustrating experience with special orders at various
fastfood places.  Now I'm starting to wonder if this is could be related
to an emphasis by management on the routine of the service encounter in
these places.

Francis

On Mon, Jan 31, 2005 at 02:28:02PM -0500, Harold F. Schiffman wrote:
> My experience with people who work in fast-food restaurants is that they
> aren't very *flexible* about changes in ordering techniques, requests,
> etc. I think they've been trained to respond to standard requests, but
> anything out of the ordinary may throw them off. They're also often not
> able to paraphrase; when I hear them ask me if it's "freer-da-go?" ("for
> here or to go?") and I don't understand this, they just repeat it, rather
> than paraphrasing, or saying it slower or more distinctly.
>
> Hal S.
>
> On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 nancyh at gse.upenn.edu wrote:
>
> > Ron,
> > Might this also have something to do with topic-comment sentence structure?
> > i.e. that the listener assumes the important information comes at the end of
> > your request, for emphasis?  You could try saying, 'Please substitute the wings
> > with legs and thighs' and see what happens.
> >
> > By the way, what are you doing eating fast-food fried chicken often enough to
> > notice this pattern?  not good for you!
> > Nancy
> >
> > Quoting Nicholas Ostler <nostler at chibcha.demon.co.uk>:
> >
> > > All
> > >
> > > What about
> > > "substitute x with y"
> > > which seems to invert the roles of x and y (meaning "replace x with y")
> > > as against
> > > "substitute x for y" (meaning "make x stand for y").
> > >
> > > There are similar ambiguities with the verbs 'trade', 'change',
> > > 'exchange', 'swap', 'switch' but (for me at least) in these latter cases
> > > it is much vaguer which way round the substitution is effected,
> > > whichever prepositions are used.
> > >
> > > My only explanation is that people who have studied maths, logic,
> > > philosophy etc. have schooled themselves to be more punctilious in
> > > interpreting the complement of noun-phrases that accompanies '
> > > substitute'. But ordinary people rest content with the the general
> > > mish-mash.
> > >
> > > Nicholas Ostler
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ronald Kephart wrote:
> > >
> > > > All:
> > > >
> > > > More than twice now, I have gone to our local fried chicken outlet and
> > > > ordered the 8 or 12 piece dinner, which usually includes some breast,
> > > > thighs, legs, and wings. While doing so, I have said:
> > > >
> > > > "Please substitute legs and thighs for the wings."
> > > >
> > > > And nearly every time, the response I get is:
> > > >
> > > > "So, you want all wings?"
> > > >
> > > > I cannot understand how they can interpret my request in this way. For
> > > > me, "substitute x for y" should mean that I don't want y, I want x
> > > > instead. But my wife who seems normal otherwise, agrees with the
> > > > chicken people. What's going on here?
> > > >
> > > > Ron
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Foundation for Endangered Languages
> > > Registered Charity: England and Wales 1070616
> > > 172 Bailbrook Lane, Bath BA1 7AA, England
> > > +44-1225-852865  nostler at chibcha.demon.co.uk
> > > http://www.ogmios.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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