[Linganth] Substitute x for y

[Harold F. Schiffman]

My experience with people who work in fast-food restaurants is that they
aren't very *flexible* about changes in ordering techniques, requests,
etc. I think they've been trained to respond to standard requests, but
anything out of the ordinary may throw them off. They're also often not
able to paraphrase; when I hear them ask me if it's "freer-da-go?" ("for
here or to go?") and I don't understand this, they just repeat it, rather
than paraphrasing, or saying it slower or more distinctly.

Hal S.

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 nancyh at gse.upenn.edu wrote:

> Ron,
> Might this also have something to do with topic-comment sentence structure?
> i.e. that the listener assumes the important information comes at the end of
> your request, for emphasis?  You could try saying, 'Please substitute the wings
> with legs and thighs' and see what happens.
>
> By the way, what are you doing eating fast-food fried chicken often enough to
> notice this pattern?  not good for you!
> Nancy
>
> Quoting Nicholas Ostler <nostler at chibcha.demon.co.uk>:
>
> > All
> >
> > What about
> > "substitute x with y"
> > which seems to invert the roles of x and y (meaning "replace x with y")
> > as against
> > "substitute x for y" (meaning "make x stand for y").
> >
> > There are similar ambiguities with the verbs 'trade', 'change',
> > 'exchange', 'swap', 'switch' but (for me at least) in these latter cases
> > it is much vaguer which way round the substitution is effected,
> > whichever prepositions are used.
> >
> > My only explanation is that people who have studied maths, logic,
> > philosophy etc. have schooled themselves to be more punctilious in
> > interpreting the complement of noun-phrases that accompanies '
> > substitute'. But ordinary people rest content with the the general
> > mish-mash.
> >
> > Nicholas Ostler
> >
> >
> >
> > Ronald Kephart wrote:
> >
> > > All:
> > >
> > > More than twice now, I have gone to our local fried chicken outlet and
> > > ordered the 8 or 12 piece dinner, which usually includes some breast,
> > > thighs, legs, and wings. While doing so, I have said:
> > >
> > > "Please substitute legs and thighs for the wings."
> > >
> > > And nearly every time, the response I get is:
> > >
> > > "So, you want all wings?"
> > >
> > > I cannot understand how they can interpret my request in this way. For
> > > me, "substitute x for y" should mean that I don't want y, I want x
> > > instead. But my wife who seems normal otherwise, agrees with the
> > > chicken people. What's going on here?
> > >
> > > Ron
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Foundation for Endangered Languages
> > Registered Charity: England and Wales 1070616
> > 172 Bailbrook Lane, Bath BA1 7AA, England
> > +44-1225-852865  nostler at chibcha.demon.co.uk
> > http://www.ogmios.org
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
>