FW: [elpr_all 1453] FW: German MIT

Mon Dec 21 06:25:51 UTC 2009

Dear Colleagues,
   I am posting the following on behalf of a colleague of mine who is not a
member of this.

Tasaku Tsunoda

------ Forwarded Message
From: KANEKO Tohru <dp2t-knk at asahi-net.or.jp>
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 09:58:57 +0900
To: 角田 太作 <tsunoda at ninjal.ac.jp>
Subject: Re: [elpr_all 1453] FW: German MIT

Dear Dr. Schulze,

you find a lot of examples in my old paper Die Partikel wa and ihre
deutschen Entsprechungen in Deutsch und Japanisch in Kontrast Band 4. 1984
Groos Vlg. hrsg. von Kaneko/Stickel.

KANEKO Tohru
dp2t-knk at asahi-net.or.jp
www.ne.jp/asahi/kaneko-tohru/languages-nowar/
<http://www.ne.jp/asahi/kaneko-tohru/languages-nowar/>
NO NUCLEAR WEAPONS, ART. 9 IN THE WORLD
>  
> ----- Original Message -----
>  
> From:  角田 太作   <mailto:tsunoda at ninjal.ac.jp>
>  
> To: altjapan at googlegroups.com ; elpr_all at aa.tufs.ac.jp ;
> aboriginal-languages at yahoogroups.jp
>  
> Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009  1:48 PM
>  
> Subject: [elpr_all 1453] FW:  German MIT
>  
> 
> 
> ------  Forwarded Message
> From: Wolfgang Schulze <W.Schulze at LRZ.UNI-MUENCHEN.DE>
> Organization:  IATS LMU
> Reply-To: <W.Schulze at lrz.uni-muenchen.de>
> Date:  Thu, 17 Dec 2009 09:00:58 +0100
> To: <LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>
> Subject:  German MIT
> 
> Dear friends,
> during a lecture on  German syntax, we came across the following problem:
> German makes use of a  topic (?) construction that goes this way:
> 
> Mit ihm  haben wir ein-en Freund verloren.
> with  he:DAT  have:PRES:1PL we INDEF-MASC:ACC friend lose:PPP
> 
> I have difficulties to  translate this into good English (my fault, sorry!):
> The meaning of the  mit-NP is not instrumental or comitative, but
> 'identifying' or  'explicative' ('in terms of', or so), that is (here:) the
> anaphor is  correferential with Freund (a paraphrase would perhaps be: 'We
> have  lost him in terms of ~ being ~ as a friend').  This pattern also works
> with names or (less obvious) with ordinary nouns, such as:
> 
> Mit  Eva haben wir eine Freundin verloren.
> 'We have lost Eva in  terms of a friend' (or so).
> 
> Mit der Feldforschung ist  der erste Schritt gemacht.
> 'The first step has been taken in terms of  fieldfwork' (or so).
> 
> This construction seems to be dependent from  placing the mit-NP into the
> preverbal topic field,  compare:
> 
> Mit Paul verließ uns ein Freund.
> Paul  left us in terms of a friend (or so)'.
> 
> But (comitative  reading):
> 
> Ein Freund verließ uns mit Paul
> A friend  left us (together) with Paul.'
> 
> Interestingly enough, the  mit-construction at issue shows an ergative
> distribution (S=O;A): As a  far as I can see, we can use this 'identifying'
> strategy with NPs in S or O  function only, but not in A function, compare:
> 
> Mit ihr   starb [eine gute Freundin]:S
> She died being a good friend  (or so).
> 
> Mit ihr verlor ich [eine gute  Freund]:O
> I have lost a good friend in terms of her (or  so).'
> 
> But not:
> 
> *Mit ihm verlor [der Mann]:A  seine Ehre.
>  with he:DAT lose:PAST:3SG DEF:MASC:NOM Mann  his-FEM:ACC honor
> 
> My question now is whether some of you know about  analogous constructions in
> other languages, and, if yes, which strategies are  applied (including a
> possible constraint regarding accusativity/ergativity) .  In German, the
> pattern seems to based on the extreme polysemy of the  preposition mit,
> covering (among many others) a true instrumental, a  comitative, and some kind
> of 'equipment' function. This equipment function  (that is a comitative-like
> function used with non-animates) seems to be a  possible candidate for the
> development of the  above-mentioned  'explicative' pattern, even though it
> strongly favors animate NPs. I also have  the impression that the referent in
> the mit-NP stands in a meronymic  relation with the 'correferential'
> expression in the second NP, but I'm not  fully sure about that.
> 
> Finally, I would be happy if you know of a  better and more precise term for
> the function at issue.
> 
> Many thanks in  advance for sharing with me your expertise and best  wishes,
> Wolfgang
> 
> 
> -- 
> Prof. Dr. Wolfgang  Schulze
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Primary contact: 
> Institut für Allgemeine &  Typologische Sprachwissenschaft
> Dept. II / F 13  
> Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität  München
> Ludwigstraße  25 
> Postanschrift / Postal  address: Geschwister-Scholl-Platz 1
> D-80539  München 
> Tel.: 0049-(0)89-2180-2486  (Secretary)
>           0049-(0)89-2180-5343  (Office)
> Fax:  0049-(0)89-2180-16567 //  0049-(0)89-2180-5345
> Email: W.Schulze at lrz.uni-muenchen.de <mailto:W.Schulze at lrz.uni-muenchen.de>
> /// Wolfgang.Schulze at lmu.de <mailto:Wolfgang.Schulze at lmu.de>
> Web: http://www.ats.uni-muenchen.de/personen/professoren/schulze/index.html
> http://www.wolfgangschulze.in-devir.com
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Second  contact: 
> Katedra  Germanistiký
> Fakulta humanitných  vied
> Univerzita Mateja Béla / Banská  Bystrica
> Tajovského  40   
> SK-97401 Banská  Bystrica
> Tel:  (00421)-(0)48-4465108
> Fax: (00421)-(0)48-4465512
> Email:  Schulze at fhv.umb.sk
> Web: http://www.fhv.umb.sk/app/user.php?user=schulze
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>  
> 
> 
> ------  End of Forwarded Message

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