threat

[Nicholas Ostler]

This is like the "I'll give you X" threatening response, where X repeats 
the last speaker's words. As in:

"Sod off!"
"I'll give you 'sod off'. Just you come back here and say that."

It also seems to underlie a memorable series of responses in Peter Cook 
and Dudley Moore's "Father and Son" sketch in their "Not Only.. But 
Also" series in the 1960s. Not exactly grammatical or idiomatic, but so 
much the funnier. E.g.

Dudley:
What time o' night d'you call this, then?
Peter:
Four o'clock in the morning, father.
Dudley:
I'll four-o'clock-in-the-morning you, my boy!

...

Peter:
Father, I don't know why you go on about the drains - you know perfectly 
well you retired at thirty-one, and you haven't been down there since.
Dudley:
I'll I haven't-been-down-there-since you, my boy!

...
Dudley:
... Did I fight in the war to hear you abuse me in such a way? Eh? Did I?
Peter:
I've no idea, father - if indeed you did fight in the war.
Dudley:
If indeed I did fight? I'll if-indeed-I-did-fight you, my boy!

...
Dudley:
... She worshipped the ground I walked on.
Peter:
She liked the ground, but she didn't care for you, father.
Dudley:
I'll she-didn't-care-for-you you, my boy!

(See the whole script at http://www.epicure.demon.co.uk/fatherandson.html
And the original recording is at 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk9zyn9w67A&feature=related
althopugh curiously with a video acted by different players.)

Nicholas


Peter Trudgill wrote:
> Still extremely current, Paul!
>
> Peter
>
>
>
> At 14:32 +0100 11/1/10, Paul Hopper wrote:
>> Dik,
>>
>> Is the Dutch threat construction accompanied by a special intonation, 
>> like
>> the English "_I'll_ teach him, etc."?
>>
>> My mother used to say things like "I'll give you throw the paper"
>> (scolding the newspaper boy, who has thrown the paper onto the porch
>> instead of walking up the steps with it). This could be older British
>> English, as I haven't heard anyone say it for many years -- I don't know
>> if it's still current. The use of 'give' recalls the Russian dative in
>> Alexander's examples.
>>
>> - Paul
>>
>>
>> On Mon, January 11, 2010 07:50, Bakker, D. wrote:
>>> Dear Alexander,
>>>
>>>
>>> Dutch does not have, I think, such a direct version of a change of
>>> semantic roles, making it a threat. A construction that I can think 
>>> of will
>>> leave the threatened individual in the original agent position, but 
>>> will
>>> turn it into a non-final construction as the argument of the verb leren
>>> to teach', in future tense, and typically with the speaker as the 
>>> agent:
>>>
>>> (about the cat of the neighbours);
>>>
>>>
>>> Hij loopt in mijn tuin
>>> It walks in my garden
>>>
>>>
>>> Ik zal hem leren in mijn tuin te lopen!
>>> I will teach it to walk in my garden
>>>
>>>
>>> Or the filler of the agent role of 'to teach' may
>>> be the demonstrative dat 'that', which then refers to the kind of
>>> punishment considered by the speaker for the wrongdoing:
>>>
>>> Ik zal de tuinslang op hem zetten. Dat zal hem leren
>>> in mijn tuin te lopen. I will turn the hose on it. That will teach 
>>> it to
>>> walk in my garden.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>>
>>> Dik
>>>
>>>
>>> Dik Bakker
>>> Dept. of General Linguistics
>>> Universities of Amsterdam & Lancaster
>>> tel (+44) 1524 64975 & (+31) 20 5253864
>>> http://home.medewerker.uva.nl/d.bakker/
>>>
>>>
>>> Societas Linguistica Europaea
>>> Secretary/Treasurer
>>> http://www.societaslinguistica.eu/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Paul J. Hopper
>> Department of English
>> Carnegie Mellon University
>> Pittsburgh, PA 15213
>
>

-- 
Nicholas Ostler
Chairman, Foundation for Endangered Languages
Registered Charity: England & Wales 1070616
www.ogmios.org
nostler at chibcha.demon.co.uk