betting questionniare

Paolo Ramat paoram at UNIPV.IT
Wed Jan 13 11:35:34 UTC 2010


Oops! I didn't see questions (5)-(7). I add here my answers. Sorry for this.
It is not clear to me what do you mean in question (2).

Best,
Paolo

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paolo Ramat" <paoram at unipv.it>
To: "Siewierska, Anna" <a.siewierska at LANCASTER.AC.UK>; 
<LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: betting questionniare


>
> Prof. Paolo Ramat
> Istituto Universitario di Studi Superiori (IUSS)
> Responsabile della classe di Scienze Umane
> V.le Lungo Ticino Sforza 56, 27100 Pavia - Italia
> Tel. +39 0382 375811 Fax +39 0382 375899
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Siewierska, Anna" <a.siewierska at LANCASTER.AC.UK>
> To: <LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:25 PM
> Subject: betting questionniare
>
>
> Dear colleague,
>
>
>
> We are doing a survey on betting constructions and would very much 
> appreciate your help. Below is a short questionniare with a number of 
> questions relating to various aspects of betting constuctions. If you 
> could answer any of these with respect to your native langauge or any 
> other language that you know we would be very grateful.   We suspect that 
> the constructions that we are after may not be present in all languages. 
> However, we have good reason to believe that betting constructions are not 
> restricted to just European languages.
>
>
>
> We have already had some interesting responses from several colleagues who 
> we approached individually for which we are very grateful. We will post 
> these together with any repsonses that we get now once we have collated 
> all the information.
>
>
>
> If you have any other observations about the linguistic expression of bets 
> not covered by the questionniare, please do share them with us.
>
>
>
> Thank you very much for your help.
>
>
>
>
>
> Dan Ponsford, Anna Siewierska, Willem Hollmann
>
> Lancaster University
>
>
>
>
>
> Questionniare
>
>
>
>
>
> Please give the name of your language (including variety).
> ITALIAN (standard variety)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Here is a little scenario: I ask my mother to do something. She may 
> remember; she may forget. I say to you:
>
>
>
> "I bet you fifty dollars she forgets"
>
>
>
> Please answer the following questions.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> (1) How would you express the sequence in quotes most naturally in your 
> language? Please gloss your example.
>
> a.  Scommetto  50 dollari che   dimentica
>    I.bet                             that  forgets
>
> b. Ci                                                scommetto 50 che 
> dimentica
>    here, in the present situation
>
> (Note: *you* is omitted, since usually one bets  his/her interlocutor. A 
> sentence like *Scommetto con te [lit.:with you]  50 dollari* sounds 
> overabundant. But
> *Scommetto con lui [lit.:with him] 50 dollari* is fine.  Furthermore, 
> Ital. being a pro-drop lg., needs not to express "she". As for b., the 
> verb *scommetterci* [1st sg, pres. *ci scommetto*] has more or less the 
> same meaning as *scommettere*, the clitic *ci* adds a note of  'hic et 
> nunc')
>
>
>
>
> Betting is often done on sports. Here is a second little scenario:
>
>
>
> Me and my brother are watching a football match between Manchester United 
> and Barcelona. He says that Manchester United will win. But I think 
> Barcelona will win. I say to him:
>
>
>
> "I bet you fifty dollars Barcelona win"
> Scommetto 50 dollari che   il B.      vince
> I.bet                           that  the B.    wins
>
>
>
> (2) How would you express the sequence in quotes? Please gloss your 
> example.
>
> ??
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> (3) If your answer to (1) or (2) used a word specifically meaning 'bet' or 
> 'to bet', does this word have any senses other than the betting sense?
> No: *scommettere* has a very specialized meaning
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> (4) If your answer to (1) mentioned 'I' and 'you', is it also possible to 
> express the same meaning without mentioning 'I', without mentioning 'you', 
> or without mentioning either? If so, please give examples.
>
> See my note to (1)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> (5) Is there a conventional way of agreeing to a bet in your language? In 
> English, bets are conventionally accepted with expressions such as "Done!" 
> or "You're on!"
>
    Possible agreeing expressions: *OK*, *D'accordo*, *Ci sto* [Infin. 
*starci*] "I agree"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> (6) Can a construction similar to the one in your answer to (1) be used to 
> show how strongly one believes a proposition to be true? For example, in 
> English it is possible to say the following with no gambling intention.
>
>
>
> I bet you     anything                 they won't come
> Scommetto qualsiasi cosa che non verranno (on the omission of *you* see 
> note to (1))

i.e. "I'm pretty sure that they won't come"

I bet you                 they won't come
Scommetto     che     non verranno       [?? *Scommetto con te che non 
verranno*, if   possible at all,  would allude to a real bet between you and 
me]



I bet                     they won't come
Scommetto che     non verranno
>
>
> If this is possible in your language, could you provide a glossed example.

Mary has not come at the expected time:

*Scommetto che         ha      perso         il treno*
  I.bet          that        has     missed       the train
 "For sure she missed the train" (a logical inference)
> If it is not possible, how would you express the same meaning?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> (7) How would you express the following in your language? Please give 
> glossed examples.
>
>
>
> I'll give you fifty dollars

   Ti        darò             50 dollari
> to.you  I.shall.give
>
>
>
> I promise you fifty dollars

    Ti         prometto 50 dollari
> to.you   I.promise
>
>
>
>
> I promise you she'll forget

   Ti         prometto che  lei dimenticherà
   to.you  I.promise that she will.forget
>
>
>
>
> I predict that she'll forget

   Prevedo che  lei dimenticherà
   I.predic  that she will.forget
>
>
>
>
> I will put the money there

    Metterò      là         il danaro
> I.will.put     there    the money
>
>
>
>
>
>
> There may be aspects of betting constructions that occurred to you but are 
> not covered by these questions. If you'd like to comment further, please 
> do so.
>
>
>
> Many thanks for your help.
>
>
>
> 



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