betting questionniare

[Matti Miestamo]

Dear Anna,

here's the questionnaire filled in with Finnish data.

> Questionniare
> 
> Please give the name of your language (including variety).

Finnish (standard/colloquial)

> Here is a little scenario: I ask my mother to do something. She may
> remember; she may forget. I say to you:
> 
> "I bet you fifty dollars she forgets"
> 
> Please answer the following questions.
> 
  > (1) How would you express the sequence in quotes most naturally in
> your language? Please gloss your example.

50 dollaria vetoa, että hän unohtaa!
50 dollari-a   veto-a   että hän     unohta-a
50 dollar-PART bet-PART that 3sg.NOM forget-3SG.PRES
(PART=partitive)

or (with no apparent meaning difference)

50 dollarista vetoa, että hän unohtaa!
50 dollari-sta veto-a   että hän     unohta-a
50 dollar-ELA  bet-PART that 3sg.NOM forget-3SG.PRES
(ELA = elative)

This idiomatic way of expressing betting is elliptic, and what has been 
ellipted is most probably lyödään (which is a form of the verb 'hit', 
more specifically the impersonal passive that is used in Colloquial 
Finnish for 1PL, thus: 'let's hit'. It is possible to say:

Lyödään 50 dollaria/dollarista vetoa, että hän unohtaa!

or with the 2nd position polar interrogative enclitic added:

Lyödäänkö 50 dollaria/dollarista vetoa, että hän unohtaa?

Note that the elliptic versions are colloquial idiomatic expressions 
rather than standard, but the morphological forms used in the examples 
are standard (except for the use of the passive form for 1PL); more 
colloquial forms would have more colloquial morphology:

50 dollarii    vetoo,   et   se      unohtaa
50 dollar.PART bet.PART that 3sg.NOM forget.3SG.PRES

or with the elative: 50 dollarist vetoo, ...

And a completely standard form would be:

Lyökäämme   50 dollaria    vetoa,   että hän     unohtaa
hit.1PL.IMP 50 dollar.PART bet.PART that 3sg.NOM forget.3SG.PRES

> 
> Betting is often done on sports. Here is a second little scenario:
> 
> Me and my brother are watching a football match between Manchester
> United and Barcelona. He says that Manchester United will win. But I
> think Barcelona will win. I say to him:
> 
> "I bet you fifty dollars Barcelona win"
> 
> (2) How would you express the sequence in quotes? Please gloss your
> example.

50 dollaria/dollarista vetoa,   että Barcelona voittaa.
50 dollar.PART/ELA     bet-PART that B.NOM     win-3SG.PRES

> 
> (3) If your answer to (1) or (2) used a word specifically meaning
> 'bet' or 'to bet', does this word have any senses other than the
> betting sense?

The noun veto primarily means 'bet' in contemporary Finnish, but it also 
has some uses (at least historically?) in law terminology ('appeal'). 
The word is however homonymous with a deverbal derivative of the verb 
vetää 'to pull': veto '(action of) pulling, draught', and I would 
imagine that many speakers perceive them as one polysemous word, 
especially since the verb vetää has semantically related uses, e.g. 
vetää kortti 'to draw a card'. (Note also that the word veto 'veto' is 
not homonymous as it is inflected in a different way (with no consonant 
gradation).)

> 
> (4) If your answer to (1) mentioned 'I' and 'you', is it also
> possible to express the same meaning without mentioning 'I', without
> mentioning 'you', or without mentioning either? If so, please give
> examples.
> 
> (5) Is there a conventional way of agreeing to a bet in your
> language? In English, bets are conventionally accepted with
> expressions such as "Done!" or "You're on!"

Regular affirmative replies apply.

> 
> (6) Can a construction similar to the one in your answer to (1) be
> used to show how strongly one believes a proposition to be true? For
> example, in English it is possible to say the following with no
> gambling intention.
> 
> 
> 
> I bet you anything they won't come
> 
> I bet you they won't come
> 
> I bet they won't come
> 
> 
> 
> If this is possible in your language, could you provide a glossed
> example. If it is not possible, how would you express the same
> meaning?

Yes.

Lyödään  vetoa,   että he eivät    tule.
hit.PASS bet.PART that 3PL NEG.3PL come.CONNEGATIVE

Here the verb is required, i.e. we can't just say: vetoa, että he eivät 
tule.

Alternatively one may say, with or without the verb:

Mistä    (lyödään) vetoa, että he eivät tule?
what.ELA hit.PASS  bet.PART, that 3PL NEG.3PL come.CNG
'How much shall we place as bet ...?'
(CNG=connegative)

> 
> (7) How would you express the following in your language? Please give
> glossed examples.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll give you fifty dollars

Annan    sinulle 50 dollaria
give.1SG you.ALL 50 dollar.PART
(ALL=allative)

> I promise you fifty dollars

Lupaan      sinulle 50 dollaria
promise.1SG you.ALL 50 dollar.PART

> I promise you she'll forget

Lupaan,     että hän     unohtaa.
promise.1SG that 3sg.NOM forget.3SG.PRES

> I predict that she'll forget

Ennustan,   että hän     unohtaa.
predict.1SG that 3sg.NOM forget.3SG.PRES

> I will put the money there

Laitan  rahan     sinne.
put.1SG money.GEN there.ALL



Best wishes,
Matti


--
Matti Miestamo
<http://www.ling.helsinki.fi/~matmies/>