query: grammaticalization go/be.in > negation

Thu Jan 31 20:01:05 UTC 2013

Ian,

'Well' and 'swimmingly' are adverbs, so not part of the go+Adj
construction. 'Go viral' is a puzzle; perhaps an ironic extension of 'go
postal' that picks up on the idea of random and uncontrolled activity. It
wouldn't surprise me if there were counter-examples and ad hoc usages. The
point is that forms that are part of the grammar and morphology of one
language can be found in other languages to be represented by clusters,
peripheral forms and statistical tendencies. There may be exceptions and
ragged ends, but they are worth looking at nonetheless--e.g., English
shows that there is the potential for negative meaning in the verb 'go'.
Kenneth Pike was right in lamenting "the tyranny of the counterexample."

Paul

> ... but, on the other hand, "go well", "go swimmingly", and even "go
> viral"
>
> I'm not sure the negativity inheres in "go"
>
> Ian
>
> On 31 Jan 2013, at 09:10, Paul Hopper wrote:
>
>> An adjective complement of English 'go'  has a negative force, e.g. go
>> bad, bankrupt, missing, crazy, postal [see
>> http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/159050.html], but not *cheerful,
>> *prosperous, etc.
>>
>> - French pas?
>>
>> Paul Hopper
>>
>>
>>> Dear David,
>>>
>>> In Tamazight of Ayr Ndhir the negator of predications of identity
>>> appears to be composed of the negative particle/prefix ur and a form
>>> of the verb go -idd
>>>
>>> (Penchoen, 1973: 63)
>>> a.	ism	uryaz-adÌ±	ur-idd	hÌ£usa
>>> this	man-this	NEG-go	Husa
>>> â€™This manâ€™s name is not Husaâ€™
>>>
>>> b.	ur-idd	llÉ™	b É›aya
>>> 	NEG-go	play	this
>>> 	â€˜This is no gameâ€™
>>>
>>> I haven't been able to verify this for other varieties of Tamazight.
>>> Generally, it is my impression that this kind of extension is
>>> relatively rare but it may be the case that it just hasn't been
>>> studied properly. Matthew Juge (1998) has a paper on the overlapping
>>> suppletion between the paradigms of ser and ir in Spanish; these verb
>>> share the same suppletive form in the preterite . It's true it is the
>>> affirmative variants of the verbs but still.
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Ljuba
>>>
>>> References
>>> Juge, Matthew. 1998. On the Rise of Suppletion in Verbal Paradigms.
>>> Ms.,
>>> BLS 25.
>>> Penchoen, Thomas G. 1973. Tamazight of the Ayt Ndhir. Los Angeles:
>>> Undena Publications.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Everett, Daniel <DEVERETT at bentley.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>> In PirahÃ£, David, the relevant construction is:
>>>> hi-ab-Ã¡o-b-Ã¡
>>>> it-negative-completive-perfective-remote (out of control of speaker)
>>>>
>>>> hi-ab-a (without aspectual morphology) is used for 'no' or 'didn't'
>>>>
>>>> The former has the sense of 'to have run out' but is very similar in
>>>> many contexts to 'allgone.'
>>>>
>>>> -- Dan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 31, 2013, at 6:53 AM, Hewitt, Stephen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello David,
>>>>>
>>>>> In Breton, yes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Aed   eo      toud
>>>>> Gone  is3sg   all
>>>>> "it's all gone"
>>>>> With the same meaning as in English. In French you have to use the
>>>>> verb
>>>>> "partir" = leave, not "aller" = go.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve Hewitt
>>>>> 30 rue Charles Baudelaire
>>>>> 75012 PARIS
>>>>> France
>>>>> s.hewitt at unesco.org
>>>>> +33/-0 1.45.68.06.08 work
>>>>> +33/-0 6.32.13.79.42 mobile
>>>>> +33/-0 1.46.28.89.16 home
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Discussion List for ALT
>>>>> [mailto:LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of David Gil
>>>>> Sent: 31 January 2013 05:30
>>>>> To: LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
>>>>> Subject: query: grammaticalization go/be.in > negation
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>
>>>>> In English motherese, the expression 'allgone' is often used to
>>>>> express
>>>>> a negative concept involving the disappearance or absence of an
>>>>> entity
>>>>> previously present.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am interested in ascertaining how common or rare it is,
>>>>> cross-linguistically, for a verb of motion (eg. 'go') or location
>>>>> (eg.
>>>>> 'be in') to undergo extension of meaning, or grammaticalization, to
>>>>> express various negative concepts, as in the above 'allgone' example.
>>>>>
>>>>> The reason behind this query is as follows.  In Roon (an Austronesian
>>>>> language of West Papua), the same verb has a range of meanings which
>>>>> includes 'be in' and 'disappear'.  (The logic behind this would seem
>>>>> to
>>>>> be that if something goes or is located somewhere else, then it is no
>>>>> longer here.)   In addition, the stem on which this verb is based is
>>>>> also used to form negative imperatives.  I am currently trying to
>>>>> figure out whether to analyze this in terms of macrofunctionality,
>>>>> polysemy, or accidental homophony, so whether similar patterns are
>>>>> attested cross-linguistically would be of relevance to the choice of
>>>>> analysis.
>>>>>
>>>>> Looking forward to any responses,
>>>>>
>>>>> David
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> David Gil
>>>>>
>>>>> Department of Linguistics
>>>>> Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology Deutscher Platz 6,
>>>>> D-04103 Leipzig, Germany
>>>>>
>>>>> Telephone: 49-341-3550321 Fax: 49-341-3550119
>>>>> Email: gil at eva.mpg.de
>>>>> Webpage:  http://www.eva.mpg.de/~gil/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Paul J. Hopper,
>> Paul Mellon Distinguished Professor of Humanities Emeritus,
>> Dietrich College of Humanities and Social Sciences,
>> Carnegie Mellon University,
>> Pittsburgh, PA 15213,
>> Tel. 412-683-1109,
>> Fax 412-268-7989.
>>
>> Adjunct Professor of Linguistics,
>> Department of Linguistics,
>> University of Pittsburgh.
>>
>> Senior External Fellow,
>> School of Linguistics and Literature,
>> Freiburg Institute for Advanced Studies (FRIAS),
>> Freiburg i.Br., Germany
>
> Ian Maddieson
>
> Department of Linguistics
> University of New Mexico
> MSC03-2130
> Albuquerque NM 87131-0001
>
>
>
>

-- 
Paul J. Hopper,
Paul Mellon Distinguished Professor of Humanities Emeritus,
Dietrich College of Humanities and Social Sciences,
Carnegie Mellon University,
Pittsburgh, PA 15213,
Tel. 412-683-1109,
Fax 412-268-7989.

Adjunct Professor of Linguistics,
Department of Linguistics,
University of Pittsburgh.

Senior External Fellow,
School of Linguistics and Literature,
Freiburg Institute for Advanced Studies (FRIAS),
Freiburg i.Br., Germany