[Lingtyp] Why cite non-Latin-script literature ONLY in Latin script?

Tue Mar 31 15:57:03 UTC 2020

What Johanna says may be true but there are also local conventions as to when to use abbreviations and what to abbreviate. In formal written Russian, the standard way of referring to a person is by abbreviating the given name and the patronymic in front of the surname, e.g. "Л. Н. Толстой" for "Lev Nikolaevič Tolstoj". This may be a problem since if you mention the person in speech or speak to them, you may in formal situations be supposed to use the given name and the patronymic - and that may not always be obvious. The same is true if you want to refer to a work by an author. You may well have the full text of a paper without being able to identify the author's first name. 

Another language where speakers seem fond of abbreviating first names is Dutch, where commonly all the given names are abbreviated (up to at least three) but I am not sure of the exact conditions when you are expected to follow this convention.

In any case, similar situations make it difficult to think of principles that could be universally applied, even for the treatment of abbreviations.

Östen Dahl

-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> För Johanna Nichols
Skickat: den 31 mars 2020 17:07
Till: Randy J. LaPolla <randy.lapolla at gmail.com>
Kopia: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
Ämne: Re: [Lingtyp] Why cite non-Latin-script literature ONLY in Latin script?

My understanding is that the convention of abbreviating names (including using just initials instead of first names) goes back to the days where it was important to conserve space (and therefore size, weight, postage, etc.) in print publications.  High time we retired that fossil.  (I think the fossil is pursued most zealously in hard-science journals, and those are the fields that have been electronic longest and most thoroughly.)

Another way to disambiguate names is to add ORCID numbers to ambiguous or possibly ambiguous ones.

Johanna Nichols

On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 5:33 AM Randy J. LaPolla <randy.lapolla at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> To echo Hartmut and Walter’s posts and respond to the general issue, this is something that those of us who work regularly with Asian language sources have had to deal with for a long time. It would be much better if we could use the original script in the references. But there are also complications if the press insists on simplified vs. traditional characters for Chinese, though this is mainly a problem for those of us who write about Old Chinese (as the simplified characters neutralised differences among many traditional characters).
> The insistence on abbreviation of names is very ethnocentric. There are languages where there are no surnames, like in Burmese and Tibetan, so to arbitrarily take the first syllable as the “given name” and the last syllable as the “surname” makes no sense.  Abbreviation is not only confusing to Western people using Chinese sources, but now many Chinese are using Western sources and writing in English, and sometimes don’t know which is the surname and so abbreviate the surname. There are also some authors who have consistently used a particular Romanisation system, e.g. Li Fang-Kuei (李方桂) always Romanised his name that way or as F-K Li, but I recently saw a paper that cited him as “Li, F.” and another as “Li, F.G.” (using the more current pinyin system). This would make it hard to identify him as the author. Even writing the name out fully in pinyin Romanisation wouldn’t solve the problem, as there are so many similar names in Chinese. For example I know two linguists and one singer whose names would Romanise as "Wang Feng", but the characters used in their names are different. The linguist Hashimoto Mantaro (橋本万太郎) had this problem in Japanese, as there was another scholar whose name was also Romanised as Mantaro Hashimoto in English publications, so he added a “J.” (with no meaning—Mantaro J. Hashimoto) to his name just to differentiate the two.
>
> So if we can persuade the presses to go along with using original scripts and not abbreviating, it would be a great thing.
>
> Stay well,
> Randy
> -----
> Randy J. LaPolla, PhD FAHA （羅仁地）
> Professor of Linguistics, with courtesy appointment in Chinese, School 
> of Humanities Nanyang Technological University HSS-03-45, 48 Nanyang 
> Avenue | Singapore 639818 http://randylapolla.net/ Most recent books:
> The Sino-Tibetan Languages, 2nd Edition (2017)
> https://www.routledge.com/The-Sino-Tibetan-Languages-2nd-Edition/LaPol
> la-Thurgood/p/book/9781138783324
> Sino-Tibetan Linguistics (2018)
> https://www.routledge.com/Sino-Tibetan-Linguistics/LaPolla/p/book/9780
> 415577397
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 31 Mar 2020, at 5:01 PM, Hartmut Haberland <hartmut at ruc.dk> wrote:
>
> Dear Ian
>
> I agree with you and Christian.
>
> I guess the APA style guidelines are from a time when online search was not invented, not widely accessible or not practicable with other scripts than Latin script. We have to grow up!
>
> A connected problem is that many journals still stick to the obsolete practice of using initials instead of full names, which often makes names unrecognizable or irretrievable.
>
> This applies especially to Chinese names: when you read »Li, W.« (or even worse, »Wei, L.«) who would know that this is Li Wei? However, a similar problem arises with Danish names. Danes are often not known (in Denmark) by their last but their middle name (if they have one). Karen Risager Larsen is locally known as Karen Risager (she has dropped the Larsen long ago), Mie Femø Nielsen as Mie Femø, and Maj-Britt Mosegaard Hansen as Maj-Britt Mosegaard. Reading »Nielsen, M. F.« or »Hansen, M. M.« in a reference list is puzzling (there are at least as many Danes with the Name Nielsen or Hansen as Chinese with the Name Li). Using full names would help here.
>
> Hartmut
>
>
>
> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> På vegne af 
> Joo, Ian
> Sendt: 31. marts 2020 09:27
> Til: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> Emne: Re: [Lingtyp] Why cite non-Latin-script literature ONLY in Latin script?
>
>
>
> Dear Sebastian,
>
>
>
> The APA style requires that it should be only written in Latin script:
>
> https://guides.library.uq.edu.au/referencing/apa6/works-in-non-English
> -scripts
>
> According to this webpage,
>
>
>
> "If you use the original version of a non-English work, cite the original version. Non-Latin alphabets are not used in the reference list in APA Style, so the title needs to be transliterated (that is, converted to the alphabet you are using to write a paper), and then followed by an English translation, in brackets."
>
>
>
> Ian
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> On Behalf Of 
> Sebastian Nordhoff
>
> Sent: Tuesday, 31 March 2020 16:15
>
> To: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>
> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Why cite non-Latin-script literature ONLY in Latin script?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 3/31/20 9:10 AM, Joo, Ian wrote:
>
> > Dear all,
>
> >
>
> > I would like to ask a question to everybody:
>
> >
>
> > When citing literature written in non-Latin script, why do some
>
> > editors require it to be cited ONLY in Latin script?
>
>
>
> Hi Ian,
>
> could you give examples of editors/publishers who require this?
>
> Best wishes
>
> Sebastian
>
>
>
> >
>
> > For example, this is how I would cite a Chinese book, when writing 
> > an
>
> > article in English:
>
> >
>
> > Xùliàn旭练Lǐ李./Láiyǔ yánjiū/倈语硏究. Zhōngguó xīn fāxiàn yǔyán yánjiū
>
> > cóngshū中国新发现语言研究丛书. Zhōngyāng mínzú dàxué chūbǎnshè中央民族大
>
> > 学出版社, Běijīng北京
>
> >
>
> > As you can see, in both the original script (Chinese) and Latin script.
>
> > But some editors require it to be:
>
> >
>
> > Xùliàn Lǐ. /Láiyǔ yánjiū/. Zhōngguó xīn fāxiàn yǔyán yánjiū cóngshū.
>
> > Zhōngyāng mínzú dàxué chūbǎnshè, Běijīng.
>
> >
>
> > But why would we not write the original script and ONLY write in 
> > Latin
>
> > script?
>
> >
>
> > The point of citing literature is to enable the reader to go find 
> > and
>
> > consult it themself.
>
> >
>
> > But when the author’s name is written as /Xùliàn Lǐ/, I have no idea
>
> > how that would be written in Chinese, thus making it more difficult 
> > to
>
> > find the literature when needed.
>
> >
>
> > So what is the logical purpose of requiring the article to be cited
>
> > ONLY in Latin script?
>
> >
>
> > The only logical reason I can think of is that it saves some space – ca.
>
> > one line per citation. But is that a good enough reason to make 
> > things
>
> > harder for those actually wanting to find and read the cited work?
>
> >
>
> > I would like to hear your opinion on this matter.
>
> >
>
> > (I’m asking this question on Lingtyp mailing list, because our
>
> > subfield makes it necessary for some of us to make extensive use of
>
> > non-Latin-script literature.)
>
> >
>
> >  From Daejeon,
>
> >
>
> > Ian
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
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>
> > Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>
> > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>
> >
>
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