[Lingtyp] A terminological quandary: 'library studies'

Mon Nov 23 16:35:01 UTC 2020

What about "grammar perusing" (or "grammar perusal")?

Best,
Chao

On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 1:54 AM Bohnemeyer, Juergen <jb77 at buffalo.edu>
wrote:

> ‘Armchair linguistics’ to me denotes the kind of study that is heavy on
> the theorizing, light on the data. I find it difficult to see how that
> would intersect with anything I would want to consider typology. (Perhaps
> the kind of study in the defunct GB/P&P framework that would look at two or
> three — likely related — languages and postulate a parameter would
> qualify.)
>
> I get the negative vibe attached to mining (though miners may beg to
> differ), but to me (speaking as someone who’s married to a computer
> scientist), ‘data mining’ doesn’t have a negative connotation beyond the
> vague aura of scariness attached to all things IT/AI these days.
>
> Which adds to the vague aura of scariness and depression (no pun intended)
> attached to mines.
>
> Hm.
>
> Juergen
>
> > On Nov 23, 2020, at 1:16 AM, Nicholas Evans <nicholas.evans at anu.edu.au>
> wrote:
> >
> > I agree with Martin about grammars being inexhaustible and priceless
> goldmines, but with Johanna about 'grammar-mining' sounding derogatory. I
> think that 'data-mining' still has connotations of 'strip-mining' and
> exploitative practices – though happy to be overruled if I am being
> oversensitive about that. On the other hand for me 'library' remains very
> positive (and also allows the possibility of thoughtful reading and
> reflection of the contents of each grammar, rather than just sticking them
> all in some python script)
> > Best Nick
> >
> >
> > Nicholas (Nick) Evans
> >
> > Director, CoEDL (ARC Centre of Excellence for the Dynamics of Language)
> > Distinguished Professor of Linguistics
> > Coombs Building, Fellows Road
> > CHL, CAP, Australian National University
> >
> > nicholas.evans at anu.edu.au
> >
> > I acknowledge the Ngunnawal people as custodians of the land on which I
> work, and pay my respects to their elders, past, present and emerging.
> Their custodianship that has never been ceded.
> >
> > From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of
> Martin Haspelmath <haspelmath at shh.mpg.de>
> > Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 5:00 PM
> > To: Johanna Nichols <johanna at berkeley.edu>
> > Cc: <LINGTYP at listserv.linguistlist.org> <
> LINGTYP at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] A terminological quandary: 'library studies'
> >
> > Every grammar is an inexhaustible goldmine that deserves to be
> exploited.
> >
> > „Armchair linguistics“ sounds derogatory to me, but what‘s the problem
> with „grammar mining“?
> >
> > In the 20th century, grammar mining studies had to be carried out in
> libraries. But nowadays all you need is access to the internet and some
> useful websites.
> >
> > Is there an alternative that‘s still better?
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > > Am 23.11.2020 um 06:42 schrieb Johanna Nichols <johanna at berkeley.edu>:
> > >
> > > I don't know -- to me both "grammar mining" and "armchair linguistics"
> > > sound derogatory.  We all want grammar writing to be taken seriously
> > > in the linguistics reward system, so use of those grammars is an
> > > honorable undertaking and deserves an honorable label.
> > >
> > > Johanna Nichols
> > >
> > >> On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 9:17 PM Ian Maddieson <ianm at berkeley.edu>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Perhaps the term ‘armchair linguistics’ would have won the poll.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Nov 22, 2020, at 20:15, Bohnemeyer, Juergen <jb77 at buffalo.edu>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Dear all — Many thanks to everyone who participated in my poll!
> > >>
> > >> There were 39 responses. Exactly one third, 13, recognized ‘library
> study’ as an established term. However, nearly half of those who did
> proposed what they considered better alternatives. Meanwhile, two thirds of
> respondents did not recognize ‘library study’ as a technical term.
> > >>
> > >> Of the suggested alternatives, the one that stood out for me is
> ‘grammar mining’. Setting aside my lack of enthusiasm for ‘grammar’ as a
> term for language descriptions, ‘grammar mining’ seems to invoke just the
> right concept and has the edge of pizzaz/sexiness.
> > >>
> > >> Best — Juergen
> > >>
> > >> On Oct 21, 2020, at 7:40 PM, Bohnemeyer, Juergen <jb77 at buffalo.edu>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Dear colleagues — The purpose of this message is not to start another
> debate on terminology. Rather, I’d simply like to gather data on how this
> community views a particular terminological choice. I created a survey that
> people can take anonymously, which should take them all of 60 seconds. I’ll
> be happy to report the results on this board. Here is the link to the
> survey:
> > >>
> > >> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/G953WP7
> > >>
> > >> The issue concerns the term ‘library study’, when used to designate
> any typological research design that draws primarily on existing language
> descriptions. I have long considered ‘library study’ to be a
> well-established technical term for this concept, and I’m unaware of
> equally well-established terminological alternatives.
> > >>
> > >> Within typology, ‘library studies’ in this sense would contrast with
> studies based on
> > >>
> > >> * typological databases such as WALS and AutoTyp;
> > >>
> > >> * primary data (prevalent in semantic typology; occurs more
> marginally elsewhere);
> > >>
> > >> * expert questionnaires (as opposed to questionnaires administered to
> speakers and designed for primary data collection; e.g. Comrie & Smith
> 1977, as opposed to Dahl 1985);
> > >>
> > >> * anything else?
> > >>
> > >> I’m just trying to find out whether I’m an outlier.
> > >>
> > >> Note, this is not about whether one finds the label fitting or
> unfortunate. All I’m trying to determine is whether to an audience of
> typologists it gets the intended meaning across.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks! — Juergen
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)
> > >> Professor, Department of Linguistics
> > >> University at Buffalo
> > >>
> > >> Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus
> > >> Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260
> > >> Phone: (716) 645 0127
> > >> Fax: (716) 645 3825
> > >> Email: jb77 at buffalo.edu
> > >> Web: http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/
> > >>
> > >> Office hours will be held by Zoom. Email me to schedule a call at any
> time. I will in addition hold Tu/Th 4-5pm open specifically for remote
> office hours.
> > >>
> > >> There’s A Crack In Everything - That’s How The Light Gets In
> > >> (Leonard Cohen)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)
> > >> Professor, Department of Linguistics
> > >> University at Buffalo
> > >>
> > >> Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus
> > >> Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260
> > >> Phone: (716) 645 0127
> > >> Fax: (716) 645 3825
> > >> Email: jb77 at buffalo.edu
> > >> Web: http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/
> > >>
> > >> Office hours will be held by Zoom. Email me to schedule a call at any
> time. I will in addition hold Tu/Th 4-5pm open specifically for remote
> office hours.
> > >>
> > >> There’s A Crack In Everything - That’s How The Light Gets In
> > >> (Leonard Cohen)
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Lingtyp mailing list
> > >> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> > >> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Ian Maddieson
> > >>
> > >> Department of Linguistics
> > >> University of New Mexico
> > >> MSC03-2130
> > >> Albuquerque NM 87131-0001
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Lingtyp mailing list
> > >> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> > >> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
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>
>
>
> --
> Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)
> Professor, Department of Linguistics
> University at Buffalo
>
> Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus
> Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260
> Phone: (716) 645 0127
> Fax: (716) 645 3825
> Email: jb77 at buffalo.edu
> Web: http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/
>
> Office hours will be held by Zoom. Email me to schedule a call at any
> time. I will in addition hold Tu/Th 4-5pm open specifically for remote
> office hours.
>
> There’s A Crack In Everything - That’s How The Light Gets In
> (Leonard Cohen)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lingtyp mailing list
> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>
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