[Lingtyp] Query: Elided Intensification

Mon Apr 12 15:34:02 UTC 2021

Cf also Swedish «eller hur». https://www.thelocal.se/20190502/swedish-word-of-the-day-eller-hur/

On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 17:11, <lingtyp-request at listserv.linguistlist.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re: Query: Elided Intensification (Frans Plank)
> 2. Re: Query: Elided Intensification (Joey Lovestrand)
> 3. Re: Query: Elided Intensification (Sebastian Nordhoff)
> 4. Re: Query: Elided Intensification (Pier Marco Bertinetto)
> 5. Re: Query: Elided Intensification (David Gil)
> 6. Re: Query: Elided Intensification (Bastian Persohn)
> 7. Surrey Lexical Splits Database (Greville Corbett)
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2021 11:09:40 +0200
> From: Frans Plank <frans.plank at uni-konstanz.de>
> To: Guillaume Segerer <guillaume.segerer at cnrs.fr>
> Cc: LINGTYP at listserv.linguistlist.org
> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Query: Elided Intensification
> Message-ID: <1240D665-AA1E-4198-8834-6A28F42B07D2 at uni-konstanz.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On 12. Apr 2021, at 09:58, Guillaume Segerer <guillaume.segerer at cnrs.fr> wrote:
>>
>>  Dear all
>>
>> In Joola (Niger-Congo, Atlantic, Keeraak variety), nɔɔn means 'as' or 'like', as in the following examples :
>>
>> dɔmɔ fʊtɛm nɔɔn wah warɛɛmɛ
>> COP.IMPERS smell.IMPERF 'as' thing has-burnt
>> 'it smells as if something has burnt' (French: 'ça sent comme si quelque chose avait brûlé')
>>
>> hʊkɛn ɩnjɛ ɩ-cɔkɔm barɛ i-sim nɔɔn ɛbɔɔs
>> yesterday I 1sg-wound.PERF but 1sg-bleed 'like' cow
>> 'Yesterday I got wounded and I bleeded like a cow' (French 'hier je me suis blessé et j'ai saigné comme une vache')
>>
>> It may also be used as an intensifier :
>>
>> sɩnaŋas si-suum-e nɔɔn
>> cooked_rice AGR-be.good-PERF nɔɔn
>> 'the rice is very good'
>>
>> na-cab-ɛ nɔɔn ɛɬakɛnay
>> 3sg-do.quickly-PERF nɔɔn INF.cook
>> He did the cooking very quickly
>>
>> nʊ-ŋəmi-e nɔɔn jabajɔɔraj jala di baɲɩɩlab
>> 2sg-love-PERF nɔɔn INF.scold of at children
>> 'you really love to scold children'
>>
>> In Joola, qualities are mostly expressed by verbs. As can be seen in the above examples, nɔɔn always appears after verbs, and I have no counterexample (but the number of examples is not that high...). These constructions may be considered as 'elided', since they may often (always ?) be completed by the word bəjəəm, for which none of my consultants could provide a translation... (this reminds me of the French expression 'comme tout' in 'il est gentil comme tout') :
>> suum-e nɔɔn ~ suum-e nɔɔn bəjəəm
>> IMPERS.be.good-PERF nɔɔn ~ IMPERS.be.good-PERF as ????
>> 'it is very good'
>>
>> Unfortunately, my knowledge of the language does not allow me to be more precise. I still hope this may help.
>>
>> Guillaume
>
> Und wie, Guillaume! (Which is German.)
>
> Frans
>>
>>
>> Le 12/04/2021 à 00:35, David Gil a écrit :
>>> Thanks to those who have responded to my query so far, either to me personally or on the list.
>>>
>>> I'd like to clarify what I had in mind by "elided" or "incomplete". I am using these terms grammatically / semantically, to express the intuition that there's something missing after the intensifier, given that forms such as Papuan Malay sampe and (Australian) English as usually occur in construction with another, following expression (or "complement").
>>>
>>> I was not implying that the construction in question should "sound incomplete" (to use Ilana's words below). But it's interesting that she characterizes the Australian English as construction as being associated with a "particular intonation", since the same is true also for the Papuan Malay construction with sampe. Though the specifics of the intonation contour seem to differ (in Papuan Malay, the peak of the contour falls on the preceding word, while the intensifier sampe is associated with low pitch, sounding like an afterthought).
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/04/2021 00:58, Ilana Mushin wrote:
>>>> I can also confirm ‘sweet as’ in Australian English. I’ve seen it on advertising billboards. I think the construction ‘X as’ can be somewhat productive - eg I’ve certainly heard ‘dumb as’. There is a particular intonation that goes with the construction - the ‘as’ is lengthened and has a rise-fall contour so it doesn’t sound incomplete (this is impressionistic - someone may have a better idea of the prosody than me).
>>>>
>>>> Ilana
>>>>
>>>> Associate Professor Ilana Mushin
>>>>
>>>> Reader in Linguistics
>>>>
>>>> President, Australian Linguistic Society
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Co-Editor, Interactional Linguistics (https://benjamins.com/catalog/il)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> School of Languages and Cultures
>>>>
>>>> University of Queensland
>>>>
>>>> St Lucia, QLD 4072.
>>>>
>>>> Ph: (07) 3365 6810
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> CRICOS Provider No: 00025B
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I acknowledge the Jagera and Turrbal peoples on whose land I live and work. Their sovereignty was never ceded.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 12 Apr 2021, at 5:27 am, David Gil <gil at shh.mpg.de> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm interested in exploring the properties and geographical distribution of a novel (well, to me at least) construction type which might be termed "Elided Intensification'. I'll explain with an example. In Papuan Malay, property-denoting and some other words may be intensified by the addition of sampe, a word whose other, more basic functions, include 'arrive' and 'until', e.g.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (1) Enak sampe
>>>>>
>>>>> nice SAMPE
>>>>>
>>>>> 'Very nice.'
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My informal "interpretation" of this construction is that it involves, or at least originated in, some kind of understood expression such as "nice arriving (at complete fulfillment)", or "nice until (completion)". As Papuan Malay is largely head-initial, it kind of feels like something is missing after the word sampe. (In Malay/Indonesian, this construction seems to be restricted geographically to the north coast of New Guinea and possibly also Northern Maluku; elsewhere it is absent.)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So far, I am familiar with two other potential cases of Elided Intensification. The first is from Ambel, an Austronesian language spoken in the Raja Ampat archipelago of the northwest coast of New Guinea, in a region where Papuan Malay is also spoken. As described by Arnold (2018:145, pers comm), aya 'until' is used in a construction closely resembling that in (1):
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (2) Anlómo aya
>>>>>
>>>>> bleed.3SG.INAN AYA
>>>>>
>>>>> ‘It bled a lot.’
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Arnold, Laura. 2018. A Grammar of Ambel, An Austronesian Language of West New Guinea. PhD Dissertation. Edinburgh: University of Edinburgh.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The second example, which I just came across, and which prompted this query, is Australian English. In the Wikipedia entry for Australian English, in a paragraph which deals with the infensification of adjectives, the following rather tantalizing passage occurs:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "In informal speech, incomplete comparisons are sometimes used, such as "sweet as" (as in "That car is sweet as.")."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So here it's comparative 'as' rather than 'arrive'/'until' that comes after the word being intensified, but still, all these cases seem to involve intensification with the elision of some kind of argument associated with the property word and denoting an extreme extent of the property in question.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My questions:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Could speakers of Australian English please confirm the existence of this construction, and comment on it. Does it occur in other varieties of English? (It was certainly completely new to me!)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Is anybody familiar with possible cases of Elided Intensification in other languages, in Australia, New Guinea or elsewhere? On the flimsy basis of three examples, it looks like an Australian / New Guinea areal feature: is this the case? For the Australia / New Guinea region I'd also appreciate negative data, of the form "no, my language definitely doesn't do this".
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. Any further comments and suggestions ...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> David
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> David Gil
>>>>>
>>>>> Senior Scientist (Associate)
>>>>> Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
>>>>> Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
>>>>> Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
>>>>>
>>>>> Email: gil at shh.mpg.de
>>>>> Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
>>>>> Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lingtyp mailing list
>>>>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>>>>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>> --
>>> David Gil
>>>
>>> Senior Scientist (Associate)
>>> Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
>>> Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
>>> Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
>>>
>>> Email: gil at shh.mpg.de
>>> Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
>>> Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lingtyp mailing list
>>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lingtyp mailing list
>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2021 11:12:11 +0100
> From: Joey Lovestrand <joeylovestrand at gmail.com>
> To: David Gil <gil at shh.mpg.de>
> Cc: "lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org"
> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Query: Elided Intensification
> Message-ID:
> <CALftu-ri2bSvnLxJTW=b1CiBFKWWxXpUkPCk_22fT-uWrJC96Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi David,
>
> Something similar happens with the preposition *jusqu’à *at the end of a
> sentence for at least some African French speakers. The examples I have are
> of French translations done by Barayin speakers in Chad, but I have a faint
> recollection of this also being common in Cameroonian French. When spoken
> there would often be a rising intensity and possibly an elongated final
> vowel.
>
> Kalas
>
> killa
>
> na
>
> abb-e-ti
>
> tak
>
> tak
>
> tak
>
> kol-e
>
> that's.all(A)
>
> 2SG.M
>
> BG
>
> follow-PRF-OBJ.3SG.F
>
> IDEO
>
> IDEO
>
> IDEO
>
> go-PRF
>
> Chadian translator: et puis tu l'as suivi jusqu'a
>
> My interpretation: ‎‎You follow her until she's gone
>
> ti
>
> sule
>
> ŋ
>
> n̰eet-o
>
> n̰eet-o
>
> na
>
> damman
>
> damman
>
> de
>
> kee
>
> SBJ.3SG.F
>
> PROG
>
> PREP
>
> advance-INF
>
> advance-INF
>
> BG
>
> until
>
> until
>
> REL.SG.F
>
> DUR(Ar)
>
> Chadian translator: en train d'établir un peu sa santé jusqu'a
>
> My interpretation: ‎‎It [the cow’s health] is getting better and better
>
> Note that in these examples there is no preposition in the source text.
>
> Joey
>
> On Sun, Apr 11, 2021 at 8:26 PM David Gil <gil at shh.mpg.de> wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>>
>> I'm interested in exploring the properties and geographical distribution
>> of a novel (well, to me at least) construction type which might be termed
>> "Elided Intensification'. I'll explain with an example. In Papuan
>> Malay, property-denoting and some other words may be intensified by the
>> addition of *sampe*, a word whose other, more basic functions, include
>> 'arrive' and 'until', e.g.
>>
>>
>>
>> (1) Enak sampe
>>
>> nice SAMPE
>>
>> 'Very nice.'
>>
>>
>>
>> My informal "interpretation" of this construction is that it involves, or
>> at least originated in, some kind of understood expression such as "nice
>> arriving (at complete fulfillment)", or "nice until (completion)". As
>> Papuan Malay is largely head-initial, it kind of feels like something is
>> missing after the word *sampe*. (In Malay/Indonesian, this construction
>> seems to be restricted geographically to the north coast of New Guinea and
>> possibly also Northern Maluku; elsewhere it is absent.)
>>
>>
>>
>> So far, I am familiar with two other potential cases of Elided
>> Intensification. The first is from Ambel, an Austronesian language
>> spoken in the Raja Ampat archipelago of the northwest coast of New Guinea,
>> in a region where Papuan Malay is also spoken. As described by Arnold
>> (2018:145, pers comm), *aya* 'until' is used in a construction closely
>> resembling that in (1):
>>
>>
>>
>> (2) Anlómo aya
>>
>> bleed.3SG.INAN AYA
>>
>> ‘It bled a lot.’
>>
>>
>>
>> Arnold, Laura. 2018. *A Grammar of Ambel, An Austronesian Language of
>> West New Guinea*. PhD Dissertation. Edinburgh: University of Edinburgh.
>>
>>
>>
>> The second example, which I just came across, and which prompted this
>> query, is Australian English. In the Wikipedia entry for Australian
>> English, in a paragraph which deals with the infensification of adjectives,
>> the following rather tantalizing passage occurs:
>>
>>
>>
>> "In informal speech, incomplete comparisons are sometimes used, such as
>> "sweet as" (as in "That car is sweet as.")."
>>
>>
>>
>> So here it's comparative 'as' rather than 'arrive'/'until' that comes
>> after the word being intensified, but still, all these cases seem to
>> involve intensification with the elision of some kind of argument
>> associated with the property word and denoting an extreme extent of the
>> property in question.
>>
>>
>>
>> My questions:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1. Could speakers of Australian English please confirm the existence of
>> this construction, and comment on it. Does it occur in other varieties
>> of English? (It was certainly completely new to me!)
>>
>>
>>
>> 2. Is anybody familiar with possible cases of Elided Intensification in
>> other languages, in Australia, New Guinea or elsewhere? On the flimsy
>> basis of three examples, it looks like an Australian / New Guinea areal
>> feature: is this the case? For the Australia / New Guinea region I'd
>> also appreciate negative data, of the form "no, my language definitely
>> doesn't do this".
>>
>>
>>
>> 3. Any further comments and suggestions ...
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> David Gil
>>
>> Senior Scientist (Associate)
>> Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
>> Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
>> Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
>>
>> Email: gil at shh.mpg.de
>> Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
>> Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lingtyp mailing list
>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2021 12:42:05 +0200
> From: Sebastian Nordhoff <sebastian.nordhoff at glottotopia.de>
> To: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Query: Elided Intensification
> Message-ID: <4620d825-6a00-348d-e1b8-7157958fa8a1 at glottotopia.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Dear David,
> in German, you hear "Als ob!" 'As if!' as a reply to surprising
> statements, mainly by younger speakers, eg
>
> A: "Ich habe 100 EUR auf der Straße gefunden" 'I found 100 EUR on the
> street'
> B: "Als ob!"
>
> To me, the sentence is definitely incomplete and makes me cringe. "ob"
> has to be followed by a subordinate clause "als ob das wahr sein
> könnte!" 'as if this could (possibly) be true!' Older speakers would
> more likely use "Das kann doch gar nicht wahr sein!" 'That cannot be true!"
>
> I realize that this is different from what you are asking for in your
> original question, but there is definitely elided content, and it is a
> context related to exaggeration/abundance/excessivity.
>
> Best wishes
> Sebastian
>
> On 4/11/21 9:26 PM, David Gil wrote:
>> Dear all,
>>
>>
>> I'm interested in exploring the properties and geographical distribution
>> of a novel (well, to me at least) construction type which might be
>> termed "Elided Intensification'. I'll explain with an example. In
>> Papuan Malay, property-denoting and some other words may be intensified
>> by the addition of /sampe/, a word whose other, more basic functions,
>> include 'arrive' and 'until', e.g.
>>
>>
>>
>> (1) Enak sampe
>>
>> nice SAMPE
>>
>> 'Very nice.'
>>
>>
>>
>> My informal "interpretation" of this construction is that it involves,
>> or at least originated in, some kind of understood expression such as
>> "nice arriving (at complete fulfillment)", or "nice until
>> (completion)". As Papuan Malay is largely head-initial, it kind of
>> feels like something is missing after the word /sampe/. (In
>> Malay/Indonesian, this construction seems to be restricted
>> geographically to the north coast of New Guinea and possibly also
>> Northern Maluku; elsewhere it is absent.)
>>
>>
>>
>> So far, I am familiar with two other potential cases of Elided
>> Intensification. The first is from Ambel, an Austronesian language
>> spoken in the Raja Ampat archipelago of the northwest coast of New
>> Guinea, in a region where Papuan Malay is also spoken. As described by
>> Arnold (2018:145, pers comm), /aya/ 'until' is used in a construction
>> closely resembling that in (1):
>>
>>
>>
>> (2) Anlómo aya
>>
>> bleed.3SG.INAN AYA
>>
>> ‘It bled a lot.’
>>
>>
>>
>> Arnold, Laura. 2018. /A Grammar of Ambel, An Austronesian Language of
>> West New Guinea/. PhD Dissertation. Edinburgh: University of Edinburgh.
>>
>>
>>
>> The second example, which I just came across, and which prompted this
>> query, is Australian English. In the Wikipedia entry for Australian
>> English, in a paragraph which deals with the infensification of
>> adjectives, the following rather tantalizing passage occurs:
>>
>>
>>
>> "In informal speech, incomplete comparisons are sometimes used, such as
>> "sweet as" (as in "That car is sweet as.")."
>>
>>
>>
>> So here it's comparative 'as' rather than 'arrive'/'until' that comes
>> after the word being intensified, but still, all these cases seem to
>> involve intensification with the elision of some kind of argument
>> associated with the property word and denoting an extreme extent of the
>> property in question.
>>
>>
>>
>> My questions:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1. Could speakers of Australian English please confirm the existence of
>> this construction, and comment on it. Does it occur in other varieties
>> of English? (It was certainly completely new to me!)
>>
>>
>>
>> 2. Is anybody familiar with possible cases of Elided Intensification in
>> other languages, in Australia, New Guinea or elsewhere? On the flimsy
>> basis of three examples, it looks like an Australian / New Guinea areal
>> feature: is this the case? For the Australia / New Guinea region I'd
>> also appreciate negative data, of the form "no, my language definitely
>> doesn't do this".
>>
>>
>>
>> 3. Any further comments and suggestions ...
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> David Gil
>>
>> Senior Scientist (Associate)
>> Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
>> Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
>> Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
>>
>> Email: gil at shh.mpg.de
>> Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
>> Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lingtyp mailing list
>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2021 13:19:05 +0200
> From: Pier Marco Bertinetto <piermarco.bertinetto at sns.it>
> To: LINGTYP at listserv.linguistlist.org
> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Query: Elided Intensification
> Message-ID:
> <CABoVV58UPsH_mM5-s8HWVEu1U2FZfQG=xY6Xwtc_oiHt0hrXCQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Frans's comment made me realize that one has the same in Italian:
> "Come" is a comparative marker (an equalizer):
> Gino è alto come Piero
> 'G. is as tall as P.'
> But then one has "eccome" (< "e come" 'and as') which is an intensifier:
> Sei felice? Eccome!
> 'Are you happy? Very much!'
> It may also be turned into a question: "eccome no?" 'how could it be
> otherwise?', which retains much of the original comparative meaning.
> Best
> Pier Marco
>
> Il giorno lun 12 apr 2021 alle ore 11:10 Frans Plank <
> frans.plank at uni-konstanz.de> ha scritto:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Und wie, Guillaume! (Which is German.)
>>
>> Frans
>>
>>
>>
>> Le 12/04/2021 à 00:35, David Gil a écrit :
>>
>> Thanks to those who have responded to my query so far, either to me
>> personally or on the list.
>>
>> I'd like to clarify what I had in mind by "elided" or "incomplete". I am
>> using these terms grammatically / semantically, to express the intuition
>> that there's something missing after the intensifier, given that forms such
>> as Papuan Malay *sampe* and (Australian) English *as* usually occur in
>> construction with another, following expression (or "complement").
>>
>> I was not implying that the construction in question should "sound
>> incomplete" (to use Ilana's words below). But it's interesting that she
>> characterizes the Australian English *as* construction as being
>> associated with a "particular intonation", since the same is true also for
>> the Papuan Malay construction with *sampe*. Though the specifics of the
>> intonation contour seem to differ (in Papuan Malay, the peak of the contour
>> falls on the preceding word, while the intensifier *sampe* is associated
>> with low pitch, sounding like an afterthought).
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>> On 12/04/2021 00:58, Ilana Mushin wrote:
>>
>> I can also confirm ‘sweet as’ in Australian English. I’ve seen it on
>> advertising billboards. I think the construction ‘X as’ can be somewhat
>> productive - eg I’ve certainly heard ‘dumb as’. There is a particular
>> intonation that goes with the construction - the ‘as’ is lengthened and
>> has a rise-fall contour so it doesn’t sound incomplete (this is
>> impressionistic - someone may have a better idea of the prosody than me).
>>
>> Ilana
>>
>> Associate Professor Ilana Mushin
>>
>> Reader in Linguistics
>>
>> President, Australian Linguistic Society
>>
>>
>>
>> [image:
>> /var/folders/lv/m77kqy0n4x1_rcd3pk0j2n900000gq/T/com.microsoft.Outlook/WebArchiveCopyPasteTempFiles/il.pb.png]
>> Co-Editor, *Interactional Linguistics* (https://benjamins.com/catalog/il)
>>
>>
>>
>> School of Languages and Cultures
>>
>> University of Queensland
>>
>> St Lucia, QLD 4072.
>>
>> Ph: (07) 3365 6810
>>
>>
>>
>> CRICOS Provider No: 00025B
>>
>>
>>
>> *I acknowledge the Jagera and Turrbal peoples on whose land I live and
>> work. Their sovereignty was never ceded.*
>>
>> On 12 Apr 2021, at 5:27 am, David Gil <gil at shh.mpg.de> <gil at shh.mpg.de>
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>>
>> I'm interested in exploring the properties and geographical distribution
>> of a novel (well, to me at least) construction type which might be termed
>> "Elided Intensification'. I'll explain with an example. In Papuan
>> Malay, property-denoting and some other words may be intensified by the
>> addition of *sampe*, a word whose other, more basic functions, include
>> 'arrive' and 'until', e.g.
>>
>>
>>
>> (1) Enak sampe
>>
>> nice SAMPE
>>
>> 'Very nice.'
>>
>>
>>
>> My informal "interpretation" of this construction is that it involves, or
>> at least originated in, some kind of understood expression such as "nice
>> arriving (at complete fulfillment)", or "nice until (completion)". As
>> Papuan Malay is largely head-initial, it kind of feels like something is
>> missing after the word *sampe*. (In Malay/Indonesian, this construction
>> seems to be restricted geographically to the north coast of New Guinea and
>> possibly also Northern Maluku; elsewhere it is absent.)
>>
>>
>>
>> So far, I am familiar with two other potential cases of Elided
>> Intensification. The first is from Ambel, an Austronesian language
>> spoken in the Raja Ampat archipelago of the northwest coast of New Guinea,
>> in a region where Papuan Malay is also spoken. As described by Arnold
>> (2018:145, pers comm), *aya* 'until' is used in a construction closely
>> resembling that in (1):
>>
>>
>>
>> (2) Anlómo aya
>>
>> bleed.3SG.INAN AYA
>>
>> ‘It bled a lot.’
>>
>>
>>
>> Arnold, Laura. 2018. *A Grammar of Ambel, An Austronesian Language of
>> West New Guinea*. PhD Dissertation. Edinburgh: University of Edinburgh.
>>
>>
>>
>> The second example, which I just came across, and which prompted this
>> query, is Australian English. In the Wikipedia entry for Australian
>> English, in a paragraph which deals with the infensification of adjectives,
>> the following rather tantalizing passage occurs:
>>
>>
>>
>> "In informal speech, incomplete comparisons are sometimes used, such as
>> "sweet as" (as in "That car is sweet as.")."
>>
>>
>>
>> So here it's comparative 'as' rather than 'arrive'/'until' that comes
>> after the word being intensified, but still, all these cases seem to
>> involve intensification with the elision of some kind of argument
>> associated with the property word and denoting an extreme extent of the
>> property in question.
>>
>>
>>
>> My questions:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1. Could speakers of Australian English please confirm the existence of
>> this construction, and comment on it. Does it occur in other varieties
>> of English? (It was certainly completely new to me!)
>>
>>
>>
>> 2. Is anybody familiar with possible cases of Elided Intensification in
>> other languages, in Australia, New Guinea or elsewhere? On the flimsy
>> basis of three examples, it looks like an Australian / New Guinea areal
>> feature: is this the case? For the Australia / New Guinea region I'd
>> also appreciate negative data, of the form "no, my language definitely
>> doesn't do this".
>>
>>
>>
>> 3. Any further comments and suggestions ...
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> David Gil
>>
>> Senior Scientist (Associate)
>> Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
>> Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
>> Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
>>
>> Email: gil at shh.mpg.de
>> Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
>> Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lingtyp mailing list
>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>
>> --
>> David Gil
>>
>> Senior Scientist (Associate)
>> Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
>> Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
>> Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
>>
>> Email: gil at shh.mpg.de
>> Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
>> Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lingtyp mailing listLingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.orghttp://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lingtyp mailing list
>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lingtyp mailing list
>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>
>
> --
>
> =========================================================
> |||| Pier Marco Bertinetto
> ------ professore emerito
> /////// Scuola Normale Superiore
> ------- p.za dei Cavalieri 7
> /////// I-56126 PISA
> ------- phone: +39 050 509111
> ///////
> ------- HOME
> /////// via Matteotti 197
> ------- I-55049 Viareggio LU
> /////// phone: +39 0584 652417
> ------- cell.: +39 368 3830251
> =========================================================
> editor of "Italian Journal of Linguistics"
> webpage <https://www.sns.it/it/bertinetto-pier-marco>
> "Laboratorio di Linguistica" <http://linguistica.sns.it>
> =========================================================
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2021 14:35:01 +0300
> From: David Gil <gil at shh.mpg.de>
> To: <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Query: Elided Intensification
> Message-ID: <1bbf25f9-db18-dcfb-b59d-f278d86124c5 at shh.mpg.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> Thanks for this, Pier Marco. I would note, however, that in my own two
> native languages, English and Hebrew, AS and HOW are expressed with
> different forms (as opposed to a single polysemous form). And both
> English and Hebrew have a construction similar to the Italian, but one
> that makes use of the HOW word, not the AS word: English /... and
> how!/ Hebrew /... veʕod ex!/ (and:more how). This seems to me to
> diminish the similarity between the Italian /Sei felice? Eccome!/ and
> the Australian English /sweet as/ construction. Though I admit that
> there may still be some distant resemblance.
>
> David
>
> On 12/04/2021 14:19, Pier Marco Bertinetto wrote:
>> Frans's comment made me realize that one has the same in Italian:
>> "Come" is a comparative marker (an equalizer):
>> Gino è alto come Piero
>> 'G. is as tall as P.'
>> But then one has "eccome" (< "e come" 'and as') which is an intensifier:
>> Sei felice? Eccome!
>> 'Are you happy? Very much!'
>> It may also be turned into a question: "eccome no?" 'how could it be
>> otherwise?', which retains much of the original comparative meaning.
>> Best
>> Pier Marco
>>
>>
>> Il giorno lun 12 apr 2021 alle ore 11:10 Frans Plank
>> <frans.plank at uni-konstanz.de <mailto:frans.plank at uni-konstanz.de>> ha
>> scritto:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Und wie, Guillaume! (Which is German.)
>>
>> Frans
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 12/04/2021 à 00:35, David Gil a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> Thanks to those who have responded to my query so far, either to
>>>> me personally or on the list.
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to clarify what I had in mind by "elided" or
>>>> "incomplete". I am using these terms grammatically /
>>>> semantically, to express the intuition that there's something
>>>> missing after the intensifier, given that forms such as Papuan
>>>> Malay /sampe/ and (Australian) English /as/ usually occur in
>>>> construction with another, following expression (or "complement").
>>>>
>>>> I was not implying that the construction in question should
>>>> "sound incomplete" (to use Ilana's words below). But it's
>>>> interesting that she characterizes the Australian English /as/
>>>> construction as being associated with a "particular intonation",
>>>> since the same is true also for the Papuan Malay construction
>>>> with /sampe/. Though the specifics of the intonation contour
>>>> seem to differ (in Papuan Malay, the peak of the contour falls
>>>> on the preceding word, while the intensifier /sampe/ is
>>>> associated with low pitch, sounding like an afterthought).
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 12/04/2021 00:58, Ilana Mushin wrote:
>>>>> I can also confirm ‘sweet as’ in Australian English. I’ve seen
>>>>> it on advertising billboards. I think the construction ‘X as’
>>>>> can be somewhat productive - eg I’ve certainly heard ‘dumb
>>>>> as’. There is a particular intonation that goes with the
>>>>> construction - the ‘as’ is lengthened and has a rise-fall
>>>>> contour so it doesn’t sound incomplete (this is impressionistic
>>>>> - someone may have a better idea of the prosody than me).
>>>>>
>>>>> Ilana
>>>>>
>>>>> Associate Professor Ilana Mushin
>>>>>
>>>>> Reader in Linguistics
>>>>>
>>>>> President, Australian Linguistic Society
>>>>>
>>>>> /var/folders/lv/m77kqy0n4x1_rcd3pk0j2n900000gq/T/com.microsoft.Outlook/WebArchiveCopyPasteTempFiles/il.pb.pngCo-Editor,
>>>>> /Interactional Linguistics/ (https://benjamins.com/catalog/il
>>>>> <https://benjamins.com/catalog/il>)
>>>>>
>>>>> School of Languages and Cultures
>>>>>
>>>>> University of Queensland
>>>>>
>>>>> St Lucia, QLD 4072.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ph: (07) 3365 6810 <tel:(07)%203365%206810>
>>>>>
>>>>> CRICOS Provider No: 00025B
>>>>>
>>>>> *I acknowledge the Jagera and Turrbal peoples on whose land I
>>>>> live and work. Their sovereignty was never ceded.*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12 Apr 2021, at 5:27 am, David Gil <gil at shh.mpg.de>
>>>>>> <mailto:gil at shh.mpg.de> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm interested in exploring the properties and geographical
>>>>>> distribution of a novel (well, to me at least) construction
>>>>>> type which might be termed "Elided Intensification'.I'll
>>>>>> explain with an example.In Papuan Malay, property-denoting and
>>>>>> some other words may be intensified by the addition of
>>>>>> /sampe/, a word whose other, more basic functions, include
>>>>>> 'arrive' and 'until', e.g.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (1) Enak sampe
>>>>>>
>>>>>> nice SAMPE
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 'Very nice.'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My informal "interpretation" of this construction is that it
>>>>>> involves, or at least originated in, some kind of understood
>>>>>> expression such as "nice arriving (at complete fulfillment)",
>>>>>> or "nice until (completion)".As Papuan Malay is largely
>>>>>> head-initial, it kind of feels like something is missing after
>>>>>> the word /sampe/.(In Malay/Indonesian, this construction seems
>>>>>> to be restricted geographically to the north coast of New
>>>>>> Guinea and possibly also Northern Maluku; elsewhere it is absent.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So far, I am familiar with two other potential cases of Elided
>>>>>> Intensification.The first is from Ambel, an Austronesian
>>>>>> language spoken in the Raja Ampat archipelago of the northwest
>>>>>> coast of New Guinea, in a region where Papuan Malay is also
>>>>>> spoken.As described by Arnold (2018:145, pers comm), /aya/
>>>>>> 'until' is used in a construction closely resembling that in (1):
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (2) Anlómo aya
>>>>>>
>>>>>> bleed.3SG.INAN AYA
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ‘It bled a lot.’
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Arnold, Laura. 2018./A Grammar of Ambel, An Austronesian
>>>>>> Language of West New Guinea/. PhD Dissertation.Edinburgh:
>>>>>> University of Edinburgh.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The second example, which I just came across, and which
>>>>>> prompted this query, is Australian English.In the Wikipedia
>>>>>> entry for Australian English, in a paragraph which deals with
>>>>>> the infensification of adjectives, the following rather
>>>>>> tantalizing passage occurs:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "In informal speech, incomplete comparisons are sometimes
>>>>>> used, such as "sweet as" (as in "That car is sweet as.")."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So here it's comparative 'as' rather than 'arrive'/'until'
>>>>>> that comes after the word being intensified, but still, all
>>>>>> these cases seem to involve intensification with the elision
>>>>>> of some kind of argument associated with the property word and
>>>>>> denoting an extreme extent of the property in question.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My questions:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1.Could speakers of Australian English please confirm the
>>>>>> existence of this construction, and comment on it.Does it
>>>>>> occur in other varieties of English?(It was certainly
>>>>>> completely new to me!)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2.Is anybody familiar with possible cases of Elided
>>>>>> Intensification in other languages, in Australia, New Guinea
>>>>>> or elsewhere?On the flimsy basis of three examples, it looks
>>>>>> like an Australian / New Guinea areal feature: is this the
>>>>>> case?For the Australia / New Guinea region I'd also appreciate
>>>>>> negative data, of the form "no, my language definitely doesn't
>>>>>> do this".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3.Any further comments and suggestions ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> David Gil
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Senior Scientist (Associate)
>>>>>> Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
>>>>>> Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
>>>>>> Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Email:gil at shh.mpg.de <mailto:gil at shh.mpg.de>
>>>>>> Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
>>>>>> Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lingtyp mailing list
>>>>>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>>>>>> <mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>>>>>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>>>>> <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp>
>>>> --
>>>> David Gil
>>>>
>>>> Senior Scientist (Associate)
>>>> Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
>>>> Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
>>>> Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
>>>>
>>>> Email:gil at shh.mpg.de <mailto:gil at shh.mpg.de>
>>>> Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
>>>> Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lingtyp mailing list
>>>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>>>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lingtyp mailing list
>>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>>> <mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>> <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lingtyp mailing list
>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>> <mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>> <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> =========================================================
>> |||| Pier Marco Bertinetto
>> ------ professore emerito
>> /////// Scuola Normale Superiore
>> ------- p.za <http://p.za> dei Cavalieri 7
>> /////// I-56126 PISA
>> ------- phone: +39 050 509111
>> ///////
>> ------- HOME
>> /////// via Matteotti 197
>> ------- I-55049 Viareggio LU
>> /////// phone: +39 0584 652417
>> ------- cell.: +39 368 3830251
>> =========================================================
>> editor of "Italian Journal of Linguistics"
>> webpage <https://www.sns.it/it/bertinetto-pier-marco <https://www.sns.it/it/bertinetto-pier-marco>>
>> "Laboratorio di Linguistica" <http://linguistica.sns.it <http://linguistica.sns.it>>
>> =========================================================
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lingtyp mailing list
>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>
> --
> David Gil
>
> Senior Scientist (Associate)
> Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
> Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
> Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
>
> Email: gil at shh.mpg.de
> Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
> Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2021 13:40:24 +0200
> From: Bastian Persohn <persohn.linguistics at gmail.com>
> To: Pier Marco Bertinetto <piermarco.bertinetto at sns.it>
> Cc: LINGTYP at listserv.linguistlist.org
> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Query: Elided Intensification
> Message-ID: <18C76437-B7B2-415A-8D85-67613A399BBC at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Something very similar to what Pier Marco Bertinetto mentioned for Italian is also found in German:
>
> (1) Mark ist so groß wie Peter.
> 'M. is as tall as P.ʼ
>
> (2) Bist du jetzt zufrieden? Und wie!
> ʻAre you happy now? Very much so!ʼ
>
> A quick and dirty web search gives results such as the following one:
>
> (3) Trotz vieler Probleme und Sorgen sind wir mit der Situation zurechtgekommen. Und wie! Wir haben keine Verluste geschrieben
> ʻDespite many issues we could manage the situation. And boy did we manage it! We generated no losses.ʼ
>
> According to the discussion on dict.leo.org <http://dict.leo.org/>, from where example (3) was pulled, some speakers of Englis
> accept And how! (https://dict.leo.org/forum/viewUnsolvedquery.php?idForum=1&idThread=970086&lp=ende&lang=de <https://dict.leo.org/forum/viewUnsolvedquery.php?idForum=1&idThread=970086&lp=ende&lang=de>).
>
> The Cambridge dictionary seems to agree (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/how#how__3 <https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/how#how__3>).
>
> Best,
> Bastian
>
>> Am 12.04.2021 um 13:19 schrieb Pier Marco Bertinetto <piermarco.bertinetto at sns.it>:
>>
>> Frans's comment made me realize that one has the same in Italian:
>> "Come" is a comparative marker (an equalizer):
>> Gino è alto come Piero
>> 'G. is as tall as P.'
>> But then one has "eccome" (< "e come" 'and as') which is an intensifier:
>> Sei felice? Eccome!
>> 'Are you happy? Very much!'
>> It may also be turned into a question: "eccome no?" 'how could it be otherwise?', which retains much of the original comparative meaning.
>> Best
>> Pier Marco
>>
>>
>> Il giorno lun 12 apr 2021 alle ore 11:10 Frans Plank <frans.plank at uni-konstanz.de <mailto:frans.plank at uni-konstanz.de>> ha scritto:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Und wie, Guillaume! (Which is German.)
>>
>> Frans
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 12/04/2021 à 00:35, David Gil a écrit :
>>>> Thanks to those who have responded to my query so far, either to me personally or on the list.
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to clarify what I had in mind by "elided" or "incomplete". I am using these terms grammatically / semantically, to express the intuition that there's something missing after the intensifier, given that forms such as Papuan Malay sampe and (Australian) English as usually occur in construction with another, following expression (or "complement").
>>>>
>>>> I was not implying that the construction in question should "sound incomplete" (to use Ilana's words below). But it's interesting that she characterizes the Australian English as construction as being associated with a "particular intonation", since the same is true also for the Papuan Malay construction with sampe. Though the specifics of the intonation contour seem to differ (in Papuan Malay, the peak of the contour falls on the preceding word, while the intensifier sampe is associated with low pitch, sounding like an afterthought).
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 12/04/2021 00:58, Ilana Mushin wrote:
>>>>> I can also confirm ‘sweet as’ in Australian English. I’ve seen it on advertising billboards. I think the construction ‘X as’ can be somewhat productive - eg I’ve certainly heard ‘dumb as’. There is a particular intonation that goes with the construction - the ‘as’ is lengthened and has a rise-fall contour so it doesn’t sound incomplete (this is impressionistic - someone may have a better idea of the prosody than me).
>>>>>
>>>>> Ilana
>>>>>
>>>>> Associate Professor Ilana Mushin
>>>>>
>>>>> Reader in Linguistics
>>>>>
>>>>> President, Australian Linguistic Society
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Co-Editor, Interactional Linguistics (https://benjamins.com/catalog/il <https://benjamins.com/catalog/il>)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> School of Languages and Cultures
>>>>>
>>>>> University of Queensland
>>>>>
>>>>> St Lucia, QLD 4072.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ph: (07) 3365 6810 <tel:(07)%203365%206810>
>>>>>
>>>>> CRICOS Provider No: 00025B
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I acknowledge the Jagera and Turrbal peoples on whose land I live and work. Their sovereignty was never ceded.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12 Apr 2021, at 5:27 am, David Gil <gil at shh.mpg.de> <mailto:gil at shh.mpg.de> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm interested in exploring the properties and geographical distribution of a novel (well, to me at least) construction type which might be termed "Elided Intensification'. I'll explain with an example. In Papuan Malay, property-denoting and some other words may be intensified by the addition of sampe, a word whose other, more basic functions, include 'arrive' and 'until', e.g.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (1) Enak sampe
>>>>>>
>>>>>> nice SAMPE
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 'Very nice.'
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My informal "interpretation" of this construction is that it involves, or at least originated in, some kind of understood expression such as "nice arriving (at complete fulfillment)", or "nice until (completion)". As Papuan Malay is largely head-initial, it kind of feels like something is missing after the word sampe. (In Malay/Indonesian, this construction seems to be restricted geographically to the north coast of New Guinea and possibly also Northern Maluku; elsewhere it is absent.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So far, I am familiar with two other potential cases of Elided Intensification. The first is from Ambel, an Austronesian language spoken in the Raja Ampat archipelago of the northwest coast of New Guinea, in a region where Papuan Malay is also spoken. As described by Arnold (2018:145, pers comm), aya 'until' is used in a construction closely resembling that in (1):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (2) Anlómo aya
>>>>>>
>>>>>> bleed.3SG.INAN AYA
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ‘It bled a lot.’
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Arnold, Laura. 2018. A Grammar of Ambel, An Austronesian Language of West New Guinea. PhD Dissertation. Edinburgh: University of Edinburgh.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The second example, which I just came across, and which prompted this query, is Australian English. In the Wikipedia entry for Australian English, in a paragraph which deals with the infensification of adjectives, the following rather tantalizing passage occurs:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "In informal speech, incomplete comparisons are sometimes used, such as "sweet as" (as in "That car is sweet as.")."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So here it's comparative 'as' rather than 'arrive'/'until' that comes after the word being intensified, but still, all these cases seem to involve intensification with the elision of some kind of argument associated with the property word and denoting an extreme extent of the property in question.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My questions:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Could speakers of Australian English please confirm the existence of this construction, and comment on it. Does it occur in other varieties of English? (It was certainly completely new to me!)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Is anybody familiar with possible cases of Elided Intensification in other languages, in Australia, New Guinea or elsewhere? On the flimsy basis of three examples, it looks like an Australian / New Guinea areal feature: is this the case? For the Australia / New Guinea region I'd also appreciate negative data, of the form "no, my language definitely doesn't do this".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. Any further comments and suggestions ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> David Gil
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Senior Scientist (Associate)
>>>>>> Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
>>>>>> Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
>>>>>> Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Email: gil at shh.mpg.de <mailto:gil at shh.mpg.de>
>>>>>> Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
>>>>>> Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lingtyp mailing list
>>>>>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>>>>>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp>
>>>> --
>>>> David Gil
>>>>
>>>> Senior Scientist (Associate)
>>>> Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
>>>> Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
>>>> Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
>>>>
>>>> Email: gil at shh.mpg.de <mailto:gil at shh.mpg.de>
>>>> Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
>>>> Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lingtyp mailing list
>>>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>>>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lingtyp mailing list
>>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lingtyp mailing list
>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp>
>>
>>
>> --
>> =========================================================
>> |||| Pier Marco Bertinetto
>> ------ professore emerito
>> /////// Scuola Normale Superiore
>> ------- p.za <http://p.za/> dei Cavalieri 7
>> /////// I-56126 PISA
>> ------- phone: +39 050 509111
>> ///////
>> ------- HOME
>> /////// via Matteotti 197
>> ------- I-55049 Viareggio LU
>> /////// phone: +39 0584 652417
>> ------- cell.: +39 368 3830251
>> =========================================================
>> editor of "Italian Journal of Linguistics"
>> webpage <https://www.sns.it/it/bertinetto-pier-marco <https://www.sns.it/it/bertinetto-pier-marco>>
>> "Laboratorio di Linguistica" <http://linguistica.sns.it <http://linguistica.sns.it/>>
>> =========================================================
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> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2021 15:10:51 +0000
> From: Greville Corbett <g.corbett at surrey.ac.uk>
> To: "lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org"
> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> Subject: [Lingtyp] Surrey Lexical Splits Database
> Message-ID: <FD06DD25-0ECA-4B1E-B88A-8701E10FCAC3 at surrey.ac.uk>
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> The Surrey Morphology Group is pleased to announce the launch of the Surrey Lexical Splits Database, available at https://lexicalsplitsdb.surrey.ac.uk/. The database offers a novel perspective on morphological typology, charting the range of possible deviations from canonical paradigms, and comprises 300 records taken from 50 languages, covering 27 families. Interactive visualisations of fieldwork data from Chichimec (Oto-Manguean, Mexico) and Skolt Saami (Finno-Ugric, Finland) are accessible through https://lexicalsplits.surrey.ac.uk/. The implications of the Chichimec data for morphological theory are reported in https://muse.jhu.edu/article/785538<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmuse.jhu.edu%2Farticle%2F785538&data=04%7C01%7Cg.corbett%40surrey.ac.uk%7Cad5dbf294b5e4448b78f08d8fb1d94a8%7C6b902693107440aa9e21d89446a2ebb5%7C0%7C0%7C637535451770902300%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=h%2FojR4SSH82IXOYzmA4cHUZOsuCxuAxQCr3OWTmYGLw%3D&reserved=0>
> Credits: we gratefully acknowledge the support of the Arts and Humanities Research Council (UK). For other thanks and authorship details see the sites
>
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> End of Lingtyp Digest, Vol 79, Issue 12
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