[Lingtyp] "Double reflexive" constructions
Riccardo Giomi
rgiomi at campus.ul.pt
Thu Dec 9 19:07:29 UTC 2021
*Well, sorry, *ipse *is not 'apposed' to the subject, because of course it
occurs in a separate (subordinate) clause, so *ipse* *is* the subject in
this clause :)
Riccardo Giomi <rgiomi at campus.ul.pt> escreveu no dia quinta, 9/12/2021 à(s)
20:03:
> Hi Alex,
>
> Right, I probably should have been more explicit in formulating the second
> leg of my new question. What I meant is whether an unambiguously reflexive
> pronoun can co-occur with what Gast & Siemund (2006) refer to as an
> *agent-oriented* intensifier (yielding a structure that would literally
> translate as, e.g. *He himself killed himself *or *He killed himself by
> himself*). Thus, emphatic reflexive anaphors of the type of Italian *se
> stesso*, Greek *ἑαυτόν *etc. would not count. (Please also note that (i)
> the Romance clitic pronouns, including *si/se,* are not reflexive-only
> markers, since they also occur in a variety of 'middle' situations; and
> (ii) in Italian the emphatic anaphoric pronoun *se stesso *cannot
> co-occur with a reflexive/middle clitic: so one could have either *La
> guerra si alimenterà *or *La guerra alimenterà se stessa *but never **La
> guerra si alimenterà se stessa*. The agent-oriented intensifier *da sé /
> da solo*, on the other hand, could indeed co-occur with the clitic
> pronoun, so one could have *La guerra si alimenterà da sola / da sé, *lit.
> "The war will feed itself alone/by itself". But then again, *si *is not a
> reflexive-only marker.)
>
> The second Latin example you give, on the other hand, is absolutely
> relevant, since (i) in Classical Latin at least, the reflexive pronoun was
> indeed (almost) exclusively used for the expression of reflexivity (plus
> 'grooming/body-motion', see Haspelmath 2003: 235) and (ii) the nominative
> inflection on *ipse* clearly indicates that this element is apposed to
> the subject-NP, and not to the reflexive pronoun. The situation in the
> first example is more ambiguous, because with a neuter subject like
> *bellum*, the intensifier *ipsum *could agree either with the latter or
> with the reflexive anaphor *se*.
>
> Ref.:
> Haspelmath, Martin. 2003. The geometry of grammatical meaning: semantic
> maps and crosslinguistic comparison. In Michael Tomasello (ed.), *The New
> Psychology of Language: Cognitive and functional approaches to language
> structure, Volume II*, 211-242. Mahwah, NJ: Erlbaum.
>
> Thank you very much, best,
> R
>
> Alex Francois <alex.francois.cnrs at gmail.com> escreveu no dia quinta,
> 9/12/2021 à(s) 19:24:
>
>> hi Riccardo,
>>
>> > *So, my new question is: are there any constructions in which a marker
>> that has reflexivity as its only attested function co-occurs with a pronoun
>> or intensifier -- or, for that matter, in which a reflexive-only pronoun
>> co-occurs with an intensifier?*
>> Well, Classical Latin does come to mind:
>> The pronouns *se*, *sibi* are inherently reflexive; and yet, it is not
>> rare to have it co-occur with intensifier *ipse* / ipsum:
>>
>> e.g. in 195 BCE, as Rome was invading Hispania (Spain), the statesman
>> Cato the Elder refused to send food supplies to Rome's army, and instead
>> proposed that the army should simply pillage the invaded country to loot
>> for provisions. Hence his famous quote
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellum_se_ipsum_alet>:
>>
>> 1) Bellum *se ips-um * al-e-t.
>> war Refl:ACC Intsf-ACC feed-Fut-3sg
>> “The war will just feed itself.”
>>
>> It's difficult to render the effect in English, as both *se* and *ipsum *would
>> be translated as “itself”. In Italian, you'd have smtg like *La guerra
>> si alimenterà se stessa.*
>>
>> Likewise, Emperor Marcus Aurelius' *Meditations
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditations>* had the original title Τὰ
>> εἰς ἑαυτόν ('those to himself')
>> which in Latin was sometimes rendered this way
>> <https://books.google.fr/books?id=HTdTAAAAcAAJ&pg=PR1#v=onepage&q&f=false>
>> :
>>
>> 2) Marci Antonini commentarii quos *ipse
>> sibi *scrip-si-t
>> Marcus:GEN Antoninus:GEN note:Nom:Pl REL:ACC:pl Intsf:NOM
>> Refl:DAT write-PFT-3sg
>> liter. “M. [Aurelius] Antoninus’ notes which he himself wrote to
>> himself.”
>>
>> _______
>>
>> In fact, as I think about it, the reflexive pronoun in Classical Greek
>> ἑαυτόν itself results from the univerbation of:
>>
>> - the archaic reflexive ἕ
>> <http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0072%3Aentry%3De(%2F>
>> [he] < PIE *swé 'reflexive pronoun' (cognate with Lat. *se*)
>> - the intensifier αὐτόν [Acc] < αὐτός
>> <http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=au%29tw%3D%7C&la=greek&can=au%29tw%3D%7C0&prior=oi(&d=Perseus:text:1999.04.0072:entry=e(/&i=1#lexicon>
>> [Nom] 'himself / this very one / the same'
>>
>> The simple reflexive ἕ [he] or ἑέ [heé] is only attested in archaic
>> texts, such as Homer
>> <http://stephanus.tlg.uci.edu/cunliffe/#eid=2627&context=lsj>.
>> Thus, *Iliad *19:384 has *ἕο αὐτοῦ* [Refl:M:Gen Intsf:M:Gen]
>> '(Achilles…) of himself', in separate words.
>>
>> The univerbation / grammaticalization of {reflexive + intensifier} into a
>> simplex {reflexive} pronoun (citation form: genitive ἑαυτοῦ
>> <http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.04.0058:entry=e(autou=>)
>> was completed by the time of Classical Attic (~500 BCE).
>>
>> best
>> Alex
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Alex François
>> LaTTiCe <http://www.lattice.cnrs.fr/en/alexandre-francois/> — CNRS–
>> <http://www.cnrs.fr/index.html>ENS
>> <https://www.ens.fr/laboratoire/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-et-cognition-umr-8094>
>> –Sorbonne nouvelle
>> <http://www.univ-paris3.fr/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-cognition-umr-8094-3458.kjsp>
>> Australian National University
>> <https://researchers.anu.edu.au/researchers/francois-a>
>> Personal homepage <http://alex.francois.online.fr/>
>> _________________________________________
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 at 18:13, Riccardo Giomi <rgiomi at campus.ul.pt> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> Thank you very much for an impressive set of data and references -- with
>>> some touches of fun, Joseph, which is always nice :)
>>>
>>> As a follow-up to my original question, I would now like to mention
>>> that, as far as I can see, probably all the verbal markers used in
>>> combination with a pronoun or intensifier have other functions besides
>>> reflexivity (although I still need to check a few references, especially as
>>> regards some of the South American languages referred to by Josh Birchall).
>>> This makes sense, of course, because the function (or at least, the origin)
>>> of the "double reflexive" is usually that of bringing out the reflexive
>>> meaning unambiguously; on the other hand, it is not totally unconceivable
>>> that a reflexive-only affix or particle could co-occur with a pronoun or
>>> intensifier, although one would in principle expect such a situation to be
>>> relatively rare. So, my new question is: are there any constructions in
>>> which a marker that has reflexivity as its only attested function co-occurs
>>> with a pronoun or intensifier -- or, for that matter, in which a
>>> reflexive-only pronoun co-occurs with an intensifier?
>>>
>>> Again, many thanks in advance and best wishes to all!
>>> R
>>>
>>> P.S.: @Randy: since the term "middle" is used in so many different ways
>>> in the literature, I am not sure this is relevant to your consideration,
>>> but indeed there are several languages in which the intransitivizer
>>> occurring in "double reflexive" constructions also occurs in non-reflexive
>>> (and non-middle?) situations. For instance, the marker *-ki *in Mosetén
>>> is used for antipassive/object demotion (e.g. 'I eat-*ki*')*; *and then
>>> of course we have the intransitivizing prefixes of Oceanic languages, which
>>> have a remarkable variety of uses.
>>>
>>> Alex Francois <alex.francois.cnrs at gmail.com> escreveu no dia quinta,
>>> 9/12/2021 à(s) 13:05:
>>>
>>>> Dear Riccardo,
>>>>
>>>> In Mwotlap (an Oceanic language of Vanuatu), the reflexive/reciprocal
>>>> is usually unmarked: such interpretations are usually simply inferred from
>>>> the co-reference between the agent and the patient [e.g. “I saw me”].
>>>>
>>>> With a 3rd non-singular pronoun (dual, trial or plural), there is an
>>>> ambiguity between
>>>> (a) a simple transitive clause with distinct referents for agent &
>>>> patient
>>>> (b) a reflexive interpretation
>>>> (c) a reciprocal interpretation
>>>>
>>>> Thus ex (1) has three interpretations:
>>>> 1) *Kōyō* mu-wuh mat *kōyō*.
>>>> 3du PFT-hit dead 3du
>>>> a/ “They killed them.” [2 people killed 2 other people, total 4
>>>> participants]
>>>> b/ “They killed themselves.” [2 people committing suicide]
>>>> c/ “They killed each other.”
>>>>
>>>> Now, Mwotlap also has a reversive ('refactive'?) postverb *lok* 'back,
>>>> again':
>>>> 2) Nok so m̄ōl *lok * l-ēm̄.
>>>> 1sg Prosp return REVERS Loc-house
>>>> “Let me go *back* home.”
>>>>
>>>> 3) Vap *lok * se!
>>>> say REVERS also
>>>> “Say it *again*!”
>>>>
>>>> If you use that reversive *lok* in a sentence like (1) above, you
>>>> disambiguate its meaning by ruling out interpretations (a) and (c);
>>>> essentially you're left with an interpretation as a reflexive:
>>>>
>>>> 4) *Kōyō* mu-wuh mat *lok* *kōyō*.
>>>> 3du PFT-hit dead REVERS 3du
>>>> ? *a/ “They killed them.” [2 people killed 2 other people, total 4
>>>> participants]*
>>>> b/ “They killed themselves.” [2 people committing suicide]
>>>> ? *a/ “They killed each other.” *
>>>>
>>>> This seems to be the sort of structure you were looking for.
>>>> ____
>>>> Reference: See page 372 of my dissertation:
>>>>
>>>> - François, Alexandre. 2001.
>>>> *Contraintes de structures et liberté dans l'organisation du
>>>> discours: Une description du mwotlap, langue océanienne du Vanuatu
>>>> <http://alex.francois.online.fr/AFpub_books_e.htm#01>*.
>>>> Doctoral dissertation in Linguistics, Université Paris-IV Sorbonne.
>>>> 1078 pp.
>>>>
>>>> best,
>>>> Alex
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Alex François
>>>> LaTTiCe <http://www.lattice.cnrs.fr/en/alexandre-francois/> — CNRS–
>>>> <http://www.cnrs.fr/index.html>ENS
>>>> <https://www.ens.fr/laboratoire/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-et-cognition-umr-8094>
>>>> –Sorbonne nouvelle
>>>> <http://www.univ-paris3.fr/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-cognition-umr-8094-3458.kjsp>
>>>> Australian National University
>>>> <https://researchers.anu.edu.au/researchers/francois-a>
>>>> Personal homepage <http://alex.francois.online.fr/>
>>>> _________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 8 Dec 2021 at 18:16, Riccardo Giomi <rgiomi at campus.ul.pt>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear typologists,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am looking for languages in which, with some predicates at least,
>>>>> unambiguous expression of reflexivity is only attained by combining two
>>>>> separate markers. Typically, the elements participating in such
>>>>> "double-reflexive" constructions (quotes needed) belong to one of the
>>>>> following, broadly-defined classes:
>>>>>
>>>>> - a valency-decreasing "middle" marker / intransitivizer (usually,
>>>>> though not necessarily a bound morpheme);
>>>>>
>>>>> - a reflexive, personal or logophoric pronoun;
>>>>>
>>>>> - a so-called reflexive intensifier, i.e. an element that functions
>>>>> like English reflexive pronouns in appositional or adverbial position (e.g. *I
>>>>> myself swept the ground / I swept the ground myself*).
>>>>>
>>>>> Below are a few examples of possible combinations of such elements (I
>>>>> have harmonized the glosses used by the various authors):
>>>>>
>>>>> Intransitivizer + reflexive pronoun: Kuuk Thaayorre
>>>>> [image: immagine.png]
>>>>>
>>>>> Intransitivizer + personal pronoun: Hmwaveke
>>>>> [image: immagine.png]
>>>>>
>>>>> Intransitivizer + intensifier (attached to the (subject) nominal and
>>>>> glossed 'SELF'): Dyirbal
>>>>> [image: immagine.png]
>>>>>
>>>>> Intransitivizer + intensifier (attached to the verb): Mezquital Otomí
>>>>> [image: immagine.png]
>>>>>
>>>>> (Gast & Siemund 2006: 368. The authors also give an example in which
>>>>> the intensifier takes the longer form *sε̌hε̒ *and occurs as an
>>>>> unbound adverb-like element.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Intensifier (marked ergative, in apposition to the (subject) nominal)
>>>>> + personal/logophoric pronoun (marked absolutive) : Tsakhur
>>>>> [image: immagine.png]
>>>>>
>>>>> If any of you is aware of a language in which "double marking" of
>>>>> reflexivity is the only option, that would be especially helpful; but, more
>>>>> generally, I am interested in all such constructions -- or possibly other,
>>>>> comparable ones which I may be leaving out of the picture. (Please don't
>>>>> bother signalling Germanic or Romance data like German *sich + selbst*
>>>>> or Spanish *si + a si mismo* -- I am already taking those into
>>>>> account.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Many thanks in advance, best wishes,
>>>>> Riccardo
>>>>>
>>>>> References
>>>>> Dik, Simon C. 1983. The Status of verbal reflexives. In Liliane
>>>>> Tasmowski & Dominique Willems (eds.), *Problems in syntax*, 231–255.
>>>>> New York & London: Plenum Press.
>>>>> Gaby, Alice. 2006. *A grammar of Kuuk Thaayorre.* Melbourne:
>>>>> University of Melbourne dissertation.
>>>>> Gast, Volker & Peter Siemund. 2006. Rethinking the relationship
>>>>> between SELF-intensifiers and reflexives". *Linguistics* 44(2),
>>>>> 343-381.
>>>>> Lyutikova, Ekaterina A. 2000. Reflexives and emphasis in Tsaxur
>>>>> (Nakh-Dagestanian). In Z. Frajzyngier and T. Curl (eds.), *Reflexives:
>>>>> Forms and Functions, *227-255. Amsterdam: John Benjamins.
>>>>> Moyse-Faurie, Claire. 2008. Constructions expressing middle, reflexive
>>>>> and reciprocal situations in some Oceanic languages. In Ekkehard König &
>>>>> Volker Gast (eds.), *Reciprocals* *and reflexives: Theoretical and
>>>>> typological explorations*, 105–168. Berlin & New York: Mouton de
>>>>> Gruyter.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Riccardo Giomi, Ph.D.
>>>>> University of Liège
>>>>> Département de langues modernes : linguistique, littérature et
>>>>> traduction
>>>>> Research group *Linguistique contrastive et typologie des langues*
>>>>> F.R.S.-FNRS Postdoctoral fellow (CR - FC 43095)
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lingtyp mailing list
>>>>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>>>>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>>>>
>>>>
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