[Lingtyp] Terminology query: Obviative constraints

Tue Sep 19 08:49:02 UTC 2023

Dear Jürgen,
Aren’t you looking for what Alena Witzlack-Makarevich & colleague call “co-arguments conditions” ?
See the following reference:
Witzlack-Makarevich, Alena & Zakharko, Taras & Bierkandt, Lennart & Zúñiga, Fernando & Bickel, Balthasar. 2016. Decomposing hierarchical alignment: co-arguments as conditions on alignment. Linguistics 531–562.
Best,
Françoise

De : Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> De la part de Martin Haspelmath
Envoyé : lundi 18 septembre 2023 20:39
À : lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
Objet : Re: [Lingtyp] Terminology query: Obviative constraints

I wouldn't use "obviation", because outside of North American linguistics, this has come to be used in the sense of "disjoint reference from the subject" (e.g. Szabolcsi, Anna, 2021. Obviation in Hungarian: What is its scope, and is it due to competition? Glossa: A Journal of General Linguistics 6(1): 57. doi: https://doi.org/10.5334/gjgl.1421)

In my 2021 paper on role-reference associations (https://ling.auf.net/lingbuzz/004047), I referred to the kinds of phenomena that Jürgen talks about as "scenario splits" of argument coding, because they depend on the *scenario* (the referential-prominence value of two arguments).

I wouldn't use the term "alignment" for such phenomena, because this is generally reserved for coexpression patterns (accusative alignment is coexpression of S and A, ergative alignment is coexpression of S and P, etc).

But this discussion is useful because it illustrates how difficult we sometimes find it to talk about interesting phenomena with terms that we all understand right away.

Martin
On 18.09.23 20:26, Juergen Bohnemeyer wrote:
Fair enough, Christian! Let me try to restate my comment a little more sensibly:

Both active/passive voice alternations and the kind of phenomena I’m interested in (including inverse voice marking) are governed by constraints on topicality and animacy, and thus more broadly by ‘reference-conditioned alignment constraints’.

But I was looking specifically for a way to designate only those constraints that occur in obviative alignment systems.

And those constraints are of a subtly different nature from those that govern active/passive alternations. In active/passive alternations (though surely not in every language-specific construction that has been called by that label), what matters is whether the actor or the undergoer is topical and where each lands on an animacy scale.

In contrast, in obviative alignment systems, what matters is whether the actor *outranks* the undergoer in animacy and topicality (including definiteness) or vice versa.

And, again, I’m looking for a way to specifically designate grammatical systems that have constraints of this specific second kind.

Does that make sense? – Best – Juergen

Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)
Professor, Department of Linguistics
University at Buffalo

Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus
Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260
Phone: (716) 645 0127
Fax: (716) 645 3825
Email: jb77 at buffalo.edu<mailto:jb77 at buffalo.edu>
Web: http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/

Office hours Tu/Th 3:30-4:30pm in 642 Baldy or via Zoom (Meeting ID 585 520 2411; Passcode Hoorheh)

There’s A Crack In Everything - That’s How The Light Gets In
(Leonard Cohen)
--

From: Christian Lehmann <christian.lehmann at uni-erfurt.de><mailto:christian.lehmann at uni-erfurt.de>
Date: Monday, September 18, 2023 at 19:32
To: Juergen Bohnemeyer <jb77 at buffalo.edu><mailto:jb77 at buffalo.edu>, LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG<mailto:LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org><mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Terminology query: Obviative constraints
I'm afraid I don't understand your qualms. An alternation is not a constraint, and voices and diatheses are no alignment constraints.
Thanks, Christian! But wouldn’t those terms again also extend to voice alternations, including European-style active/passive alternations? I’m not looking for a cover term, mind you, but rather specifically for a term that narrowly denotes those constraints that specifically concern the relative animacy and topicality (etc.) of core arguments in transitive (and ditransitive) clauses. – Best – Juergen

Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)
Professor, Department of Linguistics
University at Buffalo

Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus
Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260
Phone: (716) 645 0127
Fax: (716) 645 3825
Email: jb77 at buffalo.edu<mailto:jb77 at buffalo.edu>
Web: http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/

Office hours Tu/Th 3:30-4:30pm in 642 Baldy or via Zoom (Meeting ID 585 520 2411; Passcode Hoorheh)

There’s A Crack In Everything - That’s How The Light Gets In
(Leonard Cohen)
--

From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org><mailto:lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Christian Lehmann <christian.lehmann at uni-erfurt.de><mailto:christian.lehmann at uni-erfurt.de>
Date: Monday, September 18, 2023 at 18:12
To: LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG<mailto:LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org><mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Terminology query: Obviative constraints
Since animacy (better: empathy 🙂) and topicality are both related to reference, the term you are looking for could be something like 'reference-conditioned alignment constraint'. It would cover not only empathy and topicality, but also other referential properties like specificity, which play a role in alignment, too.
Best, Christian
--

Prof. em. Dr. Christian Lehmann
Rudolfstr. 4
99092 Erfurt
Deutschland
Tel.:

+49/361/2113417

E-Post:

christianw_lehmann at arcor.de<mailto:christianw_lehmann at arcor.de>

Web:

https://www.christianlehmann.eu<https://www.christianlehmann.eu/>

--

Prof. em. Dr. Christian Lehmann
Rudolfstr. 4
99092 Erfurt
Deutschland
Tel.:

+49/361/2113417

E-Post:

christianw_lehmann at arcor.de<mailto:christianw_lehmann at arcor.de>

Web:

https://www.christianlehmann.eu<https://www.christianlehmann.eu/>

_______________________________________________

Lingtyp mailing list

Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>

https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp

--

Martin Haspelmath

Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology

Deutscher Platz 6

D-04103 Leipzig

https://www.eva.mpg.de/linguistic-and-cultural-evolution/staff/martin-haspelmath/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/attachments/20230919/613ad6b2/attachment.htm>