[Lingtyp] Terminology query: Obviative constraints

Tue Sep 19 09:36:23 UTC 2023

Thanks, Martin! We’re coming full circle here, which is to say we’re going in circles 😉 I’m using “voice-related” precisely because I’m looking for a better term. And, the phenomena in question are voice-related not in the sense of being “sort of like voice”, but rather in the sense of involving constrains on the use of active voice, passive voice, and the Mayan agent-focus voice. So whereas Witzlack-Makarevich et al. are dealing with co-argument constraints on argument marking, I’m dealing with co-argument constraints on the use of voice constructions. The term ‘scenario’, regardless of who introduced it, is way too broad for me, because as a semanticist, I use ‘scenario’ all over the place for all kinds of interpretative phenomena. – Best – Juergen

Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)
Professor, Department of Linguistics
University at Buffalo

Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus
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Office hours Tu/Th 3:30-4:30pm in 642 Baldy or via Zoom (Meeting ID 585 520 2411; Passcode Hoorheh)

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From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Martin Haspelmath <martin_haspelmath at eva.mpg.de>
Date: Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 11:27
To: LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Terminology query: Obviative constraints

A "scenario split" is the same as a "coargument-conditioned split" – in fact, my 2021 terminology was largely inspired by Witzlack-Makarevich et al. (2016). They say:

"The phenomenon comes in two flavors: (i) in some systems, ... arguments of a clause compete for a particular agreement slot or for a particular case marker. It is normally assumed that in order to provide an account for such a system, it is necessary to posit a referential hierarchy (or scale) of a certain form (language-specific or universal). Then, one can say that only the argument that ranks higher on the hierarchy than other arguments of the same clause gets access to a particular agreement slot or case marker. Such cases underlie the traditional label “hierarchical agreement” or recently “hierarchical indexation” (Rose 2009), as well as what we will refer to as “hierarchical case marking”. (ii) In the other systems..., argument marking also depends on the whole constellation of the arguments in a clause, or what one might call its “scenario”. However, in contrast to the first type, in such systems it is impossible to account for the distribution of markers in terms of a unified referential hierarchy because the relevant conditions determining their distribution involve several variables at once (e. g., ‘assign accusative to the P argument if the A argument is second person singular and nowhere else’)." (Witzlack-Makarevich et al. 2016: 534)

So what both of the types they discuss share is that the argument marking is scenario-conditioned in some way.

Whether one regards these as "broadly voice-related phenomena" depends on one's definition of "voice", and the extent to which one may be willing to extend it to "broadly related" phenomena. (For a definition of "voice constructions" that relates them to the more basic notion of "valency constructions", see my 2022 paper: https://ling.auf.net/lingbuzz/005941.)

Best,

Martin

On 19.09.23 11:14, Juergen Bohnemeyer wrote:
Thanks for reminding me of this paper, Françoise! I had sort of “lost” this one. Meaning I skimmed it a while back, thought it was important, but then couldn’t find it again, apparently because it merged in my memory with another paper 😉

The phenomena Witzlack-Makarevich & coauthors are talking about are distinct from the ones I’m concerned with, because they’re dealing with argument marking, whereas I’m interested in broadly voice-related phenomena. But, these phenomena are clearly related, and ‘co-argument sensitivity’ strikes me a good cover term for both (while at the same time being much less abstract and broad than Martin’s ‘scenarios’).

Still not quite the narrow term I’m looking for though 😉  – Best – Juergen

Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)
Professor, Department of Linguistics
University at Buffalo

Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus
Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260
Phone: (716) 645 0127
Fax: (716) 645 3825
Email: jb77 at buffalo.edu<mailto:jb77 at buffalo.edu>
Web: http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/

Office hours Tu/Th 3:30-4:30pm in 642 Baldy or via Zoom (Meeting ID 585 520 2411; Passcode Hoorheh)

There’s A Crack In Everything - That’s How The Light Gets In
(Leonard Cohen)
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From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org><mailto:lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Françoise Rose <francoise.rose at univ-lyon2.fr><mailto:francoise.rose at univ-lyon2.fr>
Date: Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 10:49
To: LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG<mailto:LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org><mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Terminology query: Obviative constraints
Dear Jürgen,
Aren’t you looking for what Alena Witzlack-Makarevich & colleague call “co-arguments conditions” ?
See the following reference:
Witzlack-Makarevich, Alena & Zakharko, Taras & Bierkandt, Lennart & Zúñiga, Fernando & Bickel, Balthasar. 2016. Decomposing hierarchical alignment: co-arguments as conditions on alignment. Linguistics 531–562.
Best,
Françoise

De : Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org><mailto:lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> De la part de Martin Haspelmath
Envoyé : lundi 18 septembre 2023 20:39
À : lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Objet : Re: [Lingtyp] Terminology query: Obviative constraints

I wouldn't use "obviation", because outside of North American linguistics, this has come to be used in the sense of "disjoint reference from the subject" (e.g. Szabolcsi, Anna, 2021. Obviation in Hungarian: What is its scope, and is it due to competition? Glossa: A Journal of General Linguistics 6(1): 57. doi: https://doi.org/10.5334/gjgl.1421)

In my 2021 paper on role-reference associations (https://ling.auf.net/lingbuzz/004047), I referred to the kinds of phenomena that Jürgen talks about as "scenario splits" of argument coding, because they depend on the *scenario* (the referential-prominence value of two arguments).

I wouldn't use the term "alignment" for such phenomena, because this is generally reserved for coexpression patterns (accusative alignment is coexpression of S and A, ergative alignment is coexpression of S and P, etc).

But this discussion is useful because it illustrates how difficult we sometimes find it to talk about interesting phenomena with terms that we all understand right away.

Martin
On 18.09.23 20:26, Juergen Bohnemeyer wrote:
Fair enough, Christian! Let me try to restate my comment a little more sensibly:

Both active/passive voice alternations and the kind of phenomena I’m interested in (including inverse voice marking) are governed by constraints on topicality and animacy, and thus more broadly by ‘reference-conditioned alignment constraints’.

But I was looking specifically for a way to designate only those constraints that occur in obviative alignment systems.

And those constraints are of a subtly different nature from those that govern active/passive alternations. In active/passive alternations (though surely not in every language-specific construction that has been called by that label), what matters is whether the actor or the undergoer is topical and where each lands on an animacy scale.

In contrast, in obviative alignment systems, what matters is whether the actor *outranks* the undergoer in animacy and topicality (including definiteness) or vice versa.

And, again, I’m looking for a way to specifically designate grammatical systems that have constraints of this specific second kind.

Does that make sense? – Best – Juergen

Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)
Professor, Department of Linguistics
University at Buffalo

Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus
Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260
Phone: (716) 645 0127
Fax: (716) 645 3825
Email: jb77 at buffalo.edu<mailto:jb77 at buffalo.edu>
Web: http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/

Office hours Tu/Th 3:30-4:30pm in 642 Baldy or via Zoom (Meeting ID 585 520 2411; Passcode Hoorheh)

There’s A Crack In Everything - That’s How The Light Gets In
(Leonard Cohen)
--

From: Christian Lehmann <christian.lehmann at uni-erfurt.de><mailto:christian.lehmann at uni-erfurt.de>
Date: Monday, September 18, 2023 at 19:32
To: Juergen Bohnemeyer <jb77 at buffalo.edu><mailto:jb77 at buffalo.edu>, LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG<mailto:LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org><mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Terminology query: Obviative constraints
I'm afraid I don't understand your qualms. An alternation is not a constraint, and voices and diatheses are no alignment constraints.
Thanks, Christian! But wouldn’t those terms again also extend to voice alternations, including European-style active/passive alternations? I’m not looking for a cover term, mind you, but rather specifically for a term that narrowly denotes those constraints that specifically concern the relative animacy and topicality (etc.) of core arguments in transitive (and ditransitive) clauses. – Best – Juergen

Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)
Professor, Department of Linguistics
University at Buffalo

Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus
Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260
Phone: (716) 645 0127
Fax: (716) 645 3825
Email: jb77 at buffalo.edu<mailto:jb77 at buffalo.edu>
Web: http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/

Office hours Tu/Th 3:30-4:30pm in 642 Baldy or via Zoom (Meeting ID 585 520 2411; Passcode Hoorheh)

There’s A Crack In Everything - That’s How The Light Gets In
(Leonard Cohen)
--

From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org><mailto:lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Christian Lehmann <christian.lehmann at uni-erfurt.de><mailto:christian.lehmann at uni-erfurt.de>
Date: Monday, September 18, 2023 at 18:12
To: LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG<mailto:LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org><mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Terminology query: Obviative constraints
Since animacy (better: empathy 🙂) and topicality are both related to reference, the term you are looking for could be something like 'reference-conditioned alignment constraint'. It would cover not only empathy and topicality, but also other referential properties like specificity, which play a role in alignment, too.
Best, Christian
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Prof. em. Dr. Christian Lehmann
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christianw_lehmann at arcor.de<mailto:christianw_lehmann at arcor.de>
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Prof. em. Dr. Christian Lehmann
Rudolfstr. 4
99092 Erfurt
Deutschland
Tel.:
+49/361/2113417
E-Post:
christianw_lehmann at arcor.de<mailto:christianw_lehmann at arcor.de>
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https://www.christianlehmann.eu<https://www.christianlehmann.eu/>

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