[Lingtyp] Intuitions about inclusive time reference

[Hannu Tommola]

Dear Östen, Johanna and all,

thanks Johanna for listing several options in Finnish.  I'd just like to share my intuitions below.

My immediate reaction was the one Johanna gave as the last alternative:

Mari-n  pit-i                          jättää          hakemukse-nsa        tänään...
M-GEN must-PST(.3SG) leave-INF application-POSS.3 today

Given Östen's guidance "... you should try to use a maximally simple and natural formulation without excluding any possibility" I find this one preferable.

Where you place the time adverb 'today' seems not to change the reading in this respect, e.g.
Tänään Marin piti jättää hakemuksensa.
Marin piti tänään jättää hakemuksensa.

Best greetings,
Hannu
________________________________
Lähettäjä: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> käyttäjän Johanna Laakso <johanna.laakso at univie.ac.at> puolesta
Lähetetty: torstai 15. helmikuuta 2024 20.24
Vastaanottaja: LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Aihe: Re: [Lingtyp] Intuitions about inclusive time reference

Dear Östen, dear all,

my native Finnish seems to have the same options as some other European languages already mentioned in this discussion.

Just using the simple (unmarked) present (or non-past, as Finnish doesn't have a regular future tense) will convey the idea that the submission has taken or will take place during the current calendar day:

Mari jättä-ä hakemukse-nsa tänään
M. leave-3SG application-POSS.3 today
‘Mary submits/will submit her grant application today.’

However, as the unmarked present tense can refer to present or future time but normally not to the past, I'm not quite sure whether something like the following example would be completely natural and acceptable. In my understanding, this would force a reading in which the verb refers to an implicit obligation, as in "The passengers validate (= are expected to validate) their ticket as they enter the vehicle."

?Mari jättää hakemuksensa tänään. Hän on hoitanut asian jo aamulla.
‘Mary submits her grant application today. She has taken care of it already in the morning.’

If we want to explicitly express that we are not sure whether the submission has already taken place, a modal/evidential auxiliary is needed:

Mari-n pitä-isi jättä-ä hakemukse-nsa tänään. (Toivottavasti hän on hoitanut asian tai hoitaa sen iltaan mennessä.)
M-GEN must-COND(.3SG) leave-INF application-POSS.3 today
‘(I believe) Mari will submit her application today. (I hope she has taken care of it or will do it by the evening.)’

Mari-n pit-i jättää hakemuksensa tänään...
M-GEN must-PST(.3SG) ...
‘(I have heard that) Mari is supposed to submit her application today (but I might have some doubts about whether she will do it)...’

Best
Johanna
--
Univ.Prof. Dr. Johanna Laakso
Universität Wien, Institut für Europäische und Vergleichende Sprach- und Literaturwissenschaft (EVSL)
Abteilung Finno-Ugristik
Campus AAKH Spitalgasse 2-4 Hof 7
A-1090 Wien
johanna.laakso at univie.ac.at • http://homepage.univie.ac.at/Johanna.Laakso/
Project ELDIA: http://www.eldia-project.org/




I would like to ask for intuitions about the following, in one or more languages that you are acquainted with.



Suppose your colleague Mary said on Monday: "Tomorrow I'm going to submit my grant proposal." Now it's about noon on Tuesday, and you have no idea whatsoever of the time of the realization of her intention. Maybe she did it in the morning, maybe she'll wait until midnight, and maybe she's just doing it right now. How would you express the sentence below in your language(s), replacing SUBMIT by a suitable verb form? The idea is that you should try to use a maximally simple and natural formulation without excluding any possibility.



Today Mary SUBMIT her grant proposal



All comments are welcome.



Thanks in advance!

- Östen

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