[Lingtyp] 'If you say/ask why' > because

[Johanna B Nichols]

Ingush (East Caucasian and a close sister of Chechen, which is
included in Gerasimov 2022 mentioned by Timur Maisak above) is another
example.  The word order of Ingush is not exactly SOV but V2/SOV, much
like German but less strict.

Johanna

On Sat, Nov 9, 2024 at 9:57 AM Mira Ariel via Lingtyp
<lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org> wrote:
>
> OOPS!
>
> Colloquial Hebrew is SVO!
>
> Sorry about that
> Mira
>
> ________________________________
> From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Mira Ariel via Lingtyp <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> Sent: Saturday, November 9, 2024 9:55 AM
> To: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>; Daniel Ross <djross3 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] 'If you say/ask why' > because
>
> Hi,
>
> Colloquial Hebrew (SOV) has lama she... 'why + complementizer 'that' meaning 'because'.
> But I think that's probably different from using a whole compositional clause. No?
>
> Mira
>
> ________________________________
> From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Daniel Ross via Lingtyp <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> Sent: Saturday, November 9, 2024 8:23 AM
> To: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] 'If you say/ask why' > because
>
> Dear Jeremy,
>
> Related pragmatically are conventionalized functions of rhetorical questions including WHY 'because' in American Sign Language:
>
> BABY CRY WHY, MOTHER LEAVE.
> ‘The baby cried because its mother left.’
> [i.e. lit. 'Why did the baby cry? It's mother left.']
>
> From p.332 of this article: https://doi.org/10.1007/s11050-011-9071-0
>
> A non-technical overview: https://www.lifeprint.com/asl101/topics/rhetorical-questions.htm
>
> There may also be typological research on this type of usage in sign languages that others can suggest.
>
> Word order is interesting here, because you mentioned SOV languages that would tend to have clause-final conjunctions, and sign languages are exceptional in often having clause-final wh-question words (i.e. apparently rightward movement). A related theme that has caught my attention (regarding the grammaticalization of different functions from multi-verb constructions, as in my presentation at the last ALT conference) is that grammaticalization proceeds from available word orders, so that languages with different word orders may be biased to grammaticalize some functions (at least from some forms) rather than others following from the inventory of common clause sequences.
>
> Daniel
>
> On Sat, Nov 9, 2024 at 7:24 AM Timur Maisak via Lingtyp <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org> wrote:
>
> Dear Jeremy,
> Gerasimov 2022 is a dedicated study of such causal expressions:
> https://iling.spb.ru/publications/2106 [in Russian]
>
> Best,
> Timur Maisak
>
> сб, 9 нояб. 2024 г. в 18:16, Jeremy Bradley via Lingtyp <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>:
>
> Dear all,
>
> I am looking at the conventionalization, eventually grammaticalization
> of phrases meaning something along the lines of 'if you say/ask why' as
> causal conjunctions 'because', in the languages of the world. I'm
> currently aware of this happening (with some variation in the exact
> structuring) in:
>
> Mari (Uralic)
> Udmurt (Uralic)
> Chuvash (Turkic)
> Buryat (Mongolic)
> Lezgian (Northeast Caucasian)
> Tamil (Dravidian)
> Middle Indo-Aryan (IE)
> Japanese
> Korean
>
> ... which all have in common that they're SOV languages; it strikes me
> as plausible that this is a pattern that easily arises when an SOV
> language "needs" a mechanism for a postposed causal clause. But two
> things I'm curious about:
>
> 1) Does anybody know of other languages that do this, esp.
> non-SOV-languages?
>
> 2) Does anybody know about any systematic research on this process?
>
> Best,
> Jeremy
>
> --
> Jeremy Bradley, Ph.D.
> University of Vienna
>
> http://www.mari-language.com
> jeremy.moss.bradley at univie.ac.at
>
> Office address:
> Institut EVSL
> Abteilung Finno-Ugristik
> Universität Wien
> Campus AAKH, Hof 7-2
> Spitalgasse 2-4
> 1090 Wien
> AUSTRIA
>
> Mobile: +43-664-99-31-788
> Skype: jeremy.moss.bradley
>
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