[Lingtyp] Homoorganic vs. heteroorganic assymetry in nasal-plosive onset clusters

Larry M Hyman hyman at berkeley.edu
Tue Aug 12 19:32:53 UTC 2025


Thanks, Alex, this is really great stuff! I wonder if you have ever been
tempted to say that the first consonant of the word-initial CC cluster is
not in the onset? I am reminded of the various treatments of initial sC and
final Cs, which superficially violate the Sonority Sequencing Principle,
where the /s/ has been analyzed as part of the onset, as within the
syllable at a higher supersyllable level, outside the syllable, or by
saying that /s/ is either not more sonorous than the adajcent stop, rather
is just more strident. There are some languages that have even CCC and CCCC
word initial clusters where there consonant releases (very short vocalic
transitions?) among them. Here is a summary I once prepared of Apinayé
[apn] (Macro-Ge, Brazil) from  Burgess, Eunice & Patricia Ham. 1968.
Multilevel conditioning of phoneme variants in Apinayé. *Linguistics*
41.5-18.

Maximal Syllable Structure: CCCCVC, which mostly follows the SSP:

[image: image.png]



On Tue, Aug 12, 2025 at 3:14 AM Alex Francois <alex.francois.cnrs at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Ian, dear Larry,
>
> Thanks for this discussion.  The Bantu data is fascinating.
>
> While Oceanic languages tend to comply with the Sonority Sequencing
> Principle (SSP) in their phonotactics, some languages have gone rogue in
> this respect.
> Two languages of northern Vanuatu in particular, namely Dorig and Hiw,
> have followed processes of syncope; they've ended up with a prototypical
> CCVC syllabic template, and many tautosyllabic (in addition to
> heterosyllabic) consonant clusters.
>
> NB: The data below comes from the following article [available here
> <http://alex.francois.online.fr/AFpub_articles_e.htm#2010c>]:
> François, Alexandre. 2010. Phonotactics and the prestopped velar lateral
> in Hiw:
> Resolving the ambiguity of a complex segment. *Phonology *27 (3): 393-434.
>
>
> In *Dorig* [Gaua island, Banks group], most combinations are attested,
> whether homorganic or heterorganic, and whether SSP-compliant or not:
>
>    - e.g.  /*km*aːr/ '2dual', /*tᵐb*ɪŋ/ 'to shut', /*ᵐbt*ɔt/ 'canoe
>    pegs', /*nt*i/ 'child', /*mk*ɛ/ 'above', /*rk͡pʷ*a/ 'woman', /*ɣt*am/
>    'door', /*wⁿd*ɛ/ 'pig'...
>
> [image: image.png]
>
> (Grayed cells represent sonority reversals)
>
>
> Note, in passing, the prenasalized phonemes in /*ᵐb*tɔt/ 'canoe pegs', /
> *ⁿd*ŋ͡mʷuɣ/ 'mosquito', /w*ⁿd*ɛ/ 'pig', /ŋ*ⁿd*ɪr/ 'coconut crab'.
>
>
> Dorig does not seem to show any signs, whether synchronic or diachronic,
> of preferring homorganic over heterorganic clusters. (If it has any
> preference, it would be for heterorganic.)
> ________
> *Hiw* [Torres Is.] also has some interesting clusters:
>
>    - stop+nasal:  /tnɪɣ/ 'very', /pne/ 'to sling on shoulder', /kŋʷa/
>    'today', /kʷne/ 'smell',
>    - others:   /tg͡ʟɵt/ 'sweet', /kʷg͡ʟɪ/ 'dolphin', /kʷg͡ʟɵɣ/ 'wooden
>    club', /mg͡ʟe/ 'wrath', /ŋʷg͡ʟewon/ 'bush',
>                 /βti/ 'star', /wte/ 'small', /wnɔt/ 'parcel', /wg͡ʟɵn/
>    'fetch'
>
> However, as wild as some clusters may seem, most do comply with the SSP.
> Thus while /tn-/ is licensed, */nt-/ is ill-formed in Hiw (whereas it's
> fine in Dorig).
>
> The relevance of the SSP in Hiw is visible from the light-gray empty cells
> in this table:
> [image: image.png]
>
> Hiw does present some sonority reversals (dark gray cells), but these can
> be explained by Hiw-specific rules, e.g. regarding the odd behavior of /w/
> (comparable to the odd behaviour of /s/ in English clusters).  In terms of
> sonority, the complex segment /g͡ʟ/ behaves not like a plosive (a
> laterally-released stop?) but like a liquid (a prestopped lateral) ---
> which was the main thread of my 2010 paper.
>
> To come back to Ian's question on homorganicity, we may note that, while
> Hiw treats sonority as (mostly) relevant in forming its syllables, it does
> not show obvious restrictions regarding heterorganicity. Compare /*kg͡ʟ*e/
> 'scraps' with /*tg͡ʟ*ɵt/ 'sweet', /*tn*ɪɣ/ 'very' with /*pn*e/ 'carry on
> shoulder'.
>
> The only signs that Hiw may have a slight preference for homorganicity are
> diachronic, as certain sound changes involved assimilation in
> point-of-articulation (at least for coronals assimilating to a velar):
>
>    - 'belly':  *toᵐbʷa-  > *təkʷa- > *tkʷa- > /*kkʷ*a/     (cf. /təkʷe/
>    in neighboring Lo-Toga)
>    - 'today':  *ⁿdamʷai   > *ʈəŋʷa   > *tŋʷa    > /*kŋʷ*a/     (cf.
>    /ʈəŋʷe/ in Lo-Toga)
>
> Yet this slight preference of Hiw has not turned into a synchronic rule of
> avoiding heterorganic clusters in general.
>
> best
> Alex
> ------------------------------
>
> Alex François
> LaTTiCe <http://www.lattice.cnrs.fr/en/alexandre-francois/> — CNRS
> <https://www.cnrs.fr/en> — <https://www.cnrs.fr/en> ENS
> <https://www.ens.fr/laboratoire/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-et-cognition-umr-8094>
> –PSL <https://www.psl.eu/en> — Sorbonne nouvelle
> <http://www.sorbonne-nouvelle.fr/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-cognition-umr-8094-3458.kjsp>
> <http://www.sorbonne-nouvelle.fr/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-cognition-umr-8094-3458.kjsp>
> <http://www.sorbonne-nouvelle.fr/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-cognition-umr-8094-3458.kjsp>
> Australian National University
> <https://researchportalplus.anu.edu.au/en/persons/alex-francois>
> Personal homepage <http://alex.francois.online.fr/>
> _________________________________________
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: Larry M Hyman via Lingtyp <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2025 at 08:00
> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Homoorganic vs. heteroorganic assymetry in
> nasal-plosive onset clusters
> To: JOO Ian <joo at res.otaru-uc.ac.jp>
> Cc: list, typology <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>
>
> Dear Ian,
>
>
>
> I’ve waited a week to see if others might answer in more explanatory
> phonetic terms, but since you got me thinking, I thought I’d offer a few
> comments about the nasal-stop asymmetries you noted.
>
>
>
> Since you only presented labials and dental-alveolars, here is a more
> complete table of what we need to consider (in fact, more).
>
>
>
> “Better” Onsets
>
>
>
> “Worse” Onsets
>
> pm
>
> pn
>
>>
>
>
> mp
>
> np
>
> ŋp
>
> tm
>
> tn
>
>>
>
>
> mt
>
> nt
>
> ŋt
>
> km
>
> kn
>
>>
>
>
> mk
>
> nk
>
> ŋk
>
>
>
> While your numbers aren’t large and some of the differences are not so
> great (e.g. 11 mt- vs. 15 tm-), I think you are right that heterorganic CN
> is a much more common onset than NC. I would relate this to the Sonority
> Sequencing Constraint whereby a better CC onset would be one where the
> first C is less sonorous (e.g. a stop), than the second C (e.g. a
> sonorant). Thus, pl- is a good onset, while lp- is less so (and much
> rarer). The mirror image generally holds for codas: -lp is better than -pl.
> As Gussenhoven and Jacobs (2005: 138) put it: “syllables prefer to start
> with a bang and end with a whimper”.
>
>
>
> While the generalization covers more than nasal+stop or stop+nasal, nasals
> do present a special situation. The African languages I work on generally
> do not have complex onsets, but there are many which have either
> prenasalized consonants, syllabic nasal + consonant, or both. Nasally
> released CN is less attested, although importantly in Gwari [gbr], a
> Benue-Congo language of Nigeria (see below). Whether to analyze homorganic
> NC  and CN as one vs. two segments is a question that commonly arises.
> Heterorganic NC and CN are (always?) two segments.
>
>
>
> Coming back to the asymmetry you point out, I think it also could be
> useful to look at the origin of the complex clusters. I assume that
> consonant clusters mostly come from syncope, e.g. the yer phenomena in
> Slavic and vowel weakening in the minor syllable of sesquisyllabic
> languages in Southeast Asia. In Hyman (1972)*,*  I showed, ignoring vowel
> nasalization, the following sequence of changes: *CVNV > CNV > CV᷉. Gwari
> shows the second step with nasal release. (In doing my fieldwork back in
> 1970, the [a] of Cŋa was perceptually oral to me. Although it may be
> slightly nasalized, it certainly does not sound like closely related Nupe [
> nup], which has fully nasalized vowels instead of nasally related
> consonants, e.g. gã̀ ‘speak’.)
>
>
>
> Gwari
>
>
>
>
>
> cf. Proto-Grassfields Bantu
>
> ò-kŋǎ
>
> ‘monkey’
>
>
>
> *káná
>
> kŋā
>
> ‘to fry’
>
>
>
> *káŋ-i
>
> gŋà
>
> ‘to speak’
>
>
>
> *ɣàm
>
>
>
> So the question is whether syncope would be equally likely to produce such
> onsets as tm- and mt- from *tVmV and *mVtV, respectively? Siva has already
> pointed out that *m would tend to undergo homorganic nasal assimilation,
> i.e. mtV > ntV. Another possibility is that the nasal would become
> syllabic, as is often the case in African languages.
>
>
>
> Again there is a parallel with /l/. In a number of West African languages
> earlier CVlV alternates with ClV, which ultimately wins out (see Sande 2024
> for a recent statement about this phenomenon in Kru languages). Idoma [idu],
> a Benue-Congo language of Nigeria, actually has Cl̩V, where the /l/ (-->
> [r] after coronals) is syllabic and tone-bearing (Abraham 1951/1967: 108,
> Hyman 1985: 49), e.g. pĺ̩-à ‘deceived’, ú-dŕ̩-ō ‘navel’. Interestingly,
> syllabic /l/ doesn’t appear after nasals. Instead, the nasal is syllabic
> and the liquid a lone (non-syllabic) onset consonant: m̩̀lɛ̀ ‘swallowed’.
> Preconsonantal syllabic nasals are “better” than post-consonantal liquids!
>
>
> I assume that your asymmetry holds of onsets in general, not just in
> word-initial position, where longer (and more unusual) consonant sequences
> would be more likely. However, it does not hold for heterosyllabic
> consonant clusters. Instead we find the reverse asymmetry when consonants
> meet across syllables (cf. Vennemann 1988):
>
>
>
> “Worse” Contacts
>
>
>
> “Better” Contacts
>
> p.m
>
> p.n
>
> p.ŋ
>
>
>
> m.p
>
> n.p
>
> ŋ.p
>
> t.m
>
> t.n
>
> t.ŋ
>
>
>
> m.t
>
> n.t
>
> ŋ.t
>
> k.m
>
> k.n
>
> k.ŋ
>
>
>
> m.k
>
> n.k
>
> ŋ.k
>
>
>
> This again has to do with sonority: with CVN.CV we get Gussenhoven &
> Jacob’s coda whimper followed by an onset bang.
>
>
>
> Thanks for getting me thinking about this.
>
>
>
> Cited works:
>
>
>
> Abraham, R.C. 1951/1967. *The Idoma language*. London: University of
> London Press.
>
>
>
> Gussenhoven, Carlos & Haike Jacobs. 2005. Understanding phonology. 2nd
> Edition. London: Hodder Arnold. (I haven’t checked more recent editions).
>
>
>
> Hyman, Larry M. 1972. Nasals and nasalization in Kwa. *Studies in African
> Linguistics* 3.167-206.
>
>
>
> Hyman, Larry M. 1985. *A theory of phonological weight*. Dordrecht:
> Foris. (Reprinted with a new introduction with William R. Leben. Stanford,
> CSLI, 2003.)
>
>
>
> Sande, Hannah. 2024. Insertion or deletion? CVCV/CCV alternations in Kru
> languages. In Ji Yea Kim, Veronica Miatto, Andrija Petrović & Lori Repetti
> (eds.), *Epenthesis and beyond: Recent approaches to insertion in
> phonology and its interfaces*, 21–55. Berlin: Language Science Pres
>
>
>
> Vennemann, Theo. 1988. *Preference laws for syllable structure and the
> explanation of sound change: With special reference to German, Germanic,
> Italian, and Latin*. Berlin: Mouton de Gruyter.
>
> On Tue, Aug 5, 2025 at 2:48 AM JOO Ian via Lingtyp <
> lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org> wrote:
>
>> Dear typologists,
>>
>>
>>
>> It has occurred to me that homoorganic nasal-plosive onset clusters (e.g.
>> /mp-/) seem to be more common than homoorganic plosive-nasal onset clusters
>> (e.g. /pm-/), whereas heteroorganic plosive-nasal clusters (e.g. /pn-/) are
>> more common than heteroorganic nasal-plosive clusters (e.g. /np/-).
>>
>> For example, based on Phonotacticon 1.0
>> <https://www.degruyterbrill.com/document/doi/10.1515/lingty-2023-0094>,
>> which is limited to Eurasia, the following number of lects have the
>> following onset clusters:
>>
>>
>>
>> l  /pm-/ : 2
>>
>> l  /mp-/ : 12
>>
>> l  /pn-/ : 14
>>
>> l  /np-/ : 4
>>
>>
>>
>> When looking at, say, /tn- nt- tm- mt-/, the pattern is the sameː
>>
>>
>>
>> l  /tn-/ ː 8
>>
>> l  /nt-/ ː 13
>>
>> l  /tm- / ː 15
>>
>> l  /mt-/ ː 11
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> What could explain this assymetry?
>>
>>
>>
>> From Otaru,
>>
>> Ian
>>
>>
>>
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> 朱 易安
>> JOO, IAN
>> 准教授
>> Associate Professor
>> 小樽商科大学
>> Otaru University of Commerce
>>
>>
>>
>> 🌐 ianjoo.github.io
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lingtyp mailing list
>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>
>
>
> --
> Larry M. Hyman, Distinguished Professor of the Graduate School
> & Director, France-Berkeley Fund, University of California, Berkeley
> https://linguistics.berkeley.edu/~hyman
> _______________________________________________
> Lingtyp mailing list
> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>


-- 
Larry M. Hyman, Distinguished Professor of the Graduate School
& Director, France-Berkeley Fund, University of California, Berkeley
https://linguistics.berkeley.edu/~hyman
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