9.104, Disc: L2 and dreams

[The LINGUIST List]

LINGUIST List:  Vol-9-104. Thu Jan 22 1998. ISSN: 1068-4875.

Subject: 9.104, Disc: L2 and dreams

Moderators: Anthony Rodrigues Aristar: Texas A&M U. <aristar at linguistlist.org>
            Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan U. <hdry at linguistlist.org>
            T. Daniel Seely: Eastern Michigan U. <seely at linguistlist.org>

Review Editor:     Andrew Carnie <carnie at linguistlist.org>

Associate Editor: Ljuba Veselinova <ljuba at linguistlist.org>

Assistant Editors:  Martin Jacobsen <marty at linguistlist.org>
                    Brett Churchill <brett at linguistlist.org>
                    Anita Huang <anita at linguistlist.org>
                    Julie Wilson <julie at linguistlist.org>
                    Elaine Halleck <elaine at linguistlist.org>

Software development: John H. Remmers <remmers at emunix.emich.edu>
                      Zhiping Zheng <zzheng at online.emich.edu>

Home Page:  http://linguistlist.org/


Editor for this issue: Brett Churchill <brett at linguistlist.org>

=================================Directory=================================

1)
Date:  Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:04:11 -0800 (PST)
From:  "Dan I. SLOBIN" <slobin at COGSCI.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject:  Re: 9.76, Disc: L2 and dreams

2)
Date:  Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:58:25 -0500 (EST)
From:  x9705546 <D.Horn at uea.ac.uk>
Subject:  Re: 9.90, Disc: L2 and Dreams

3)
Date:  Thu, 22 Jan 1998 00:25:28 -0800 (PST)
From:  "Dan I. SLOBIN" <slobin at COGSCI.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject:  Re; 9.76, Disc: L2 and dreams

4)
Date:  Thu, 22 Jan 1998 04:45:36 PST
From:  "KIM DAMMERS" <kdammers at hotmail.com>
Subject:  L2 dreams

-------------------------------- Message 1 -------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:04:11 -0800 (PST)
From:  "Dan I. SLOBIN" <slobin at COGSCI.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject:  Re: 9.76, Disc: L2 and dreams

Well, I'll add another anecdote, because of the interesting level of
metalinguistic awareness in dreaming:  I dreamed that I was in China, and
was frustrated that I couldn't have the dream in Chinese, which would
have made it seem more authentic.  So I decided to carry on the dream in
Russian (in which I am fluent), and had the pleasant double-consciousness
of the dreamer believing he was carrying on conversations in Chinese,
along with the lucid dreamer who knew that it was really Russian.  I
distinctly remember real conversations in Russian in that dream, along
with the belief that they were in Chinese.

Dan Slobin
Dept of Psychology
Univ of Calif, Berkeley


-------------------------------- Message 2 -------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:58:25 -0500 (EST)
From:  x9705546 <D.Horn at uea.ac.uk>
Subject:  Re: 9.90, Disc: L2 and Dreams

> Dr. Frank Crippen ... He told me that he had considerable
> fluency in something more than 20 languages, but that he
> had only dreamt in about 15 or 16 of them. He said that he
> didn't consider himself really fluent until he had had
> dreams in the language.

A few years ago I was offered a job in a small village in
French-speaking Switzerland.  I had taken French at school,
O-Level and A-Level, but had had little opportunity or need
to use it in the intervening seven or eight years, so I was a
little apprehensive when I packed my bags and traveled
there.  Over the next few months, the language came flooding
back to me, immersed as I was in French as the primary social
language.  I can distinctly recall, however, coming down to
work one morning and when asked how I had slept I replied "Oh
fine, fine.  I've started dreaming in French!"  My
colleagues, who despite being Swiss had no second language,
were both amazed and happy for me.  I remember making the
point to them at the time that one cannot be truly fluent in
a language unless one dreams in that language.

David N Horn.
Student, University of East Anglia, UK.
D.Horn at uea.ac.uk



-------------------------------- Message 3 -------------------------------

Date:  Thu, 22 Jan 1998 00:25:28 -0800 (PST)
From:  "Dan I. SLOBIN" <slobin at COGSCI.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject:  Re; 9.76, Disc: L2 and dreams


Well, I'll add another anecdote, because of the interesting level of
metalinguistic awareness in dreaming:  I dreamed that I was in China, and
was frustrated that I couldn't have the dream in Chinese, which would
have made it seem more authentic.  So I decided to carry on the dream in
Russian (in which I am fluent), and had the pleasant double-consciousness
of the dreamer believing he was carrying on conversations in Chinese,
along with the lucid dreamer who knew that it was really Russian.  I
distinctly remember real conversations in Russian in that dream, along
with the dreamer's belief that they were in Chinese.

Dan Slobin
Dept of Psychology
Univ of Calif, Berkeley


-------------------------------- Message 4 -------------------------------

Date:  Thu, 22 Jan 1998 04:45:36 PST
From:  "KIM DAMMERS" <kdammers at hotmail.com>
Subject:  L2 dreams

Here are my anecdotes:

  While furiously trying to learn Latin in an intensive course, I
started to dream in Latin.  I was fluent and also knew the dreaded
grammar. At first, I was elated.  But then one morning I was able  write
down what I had been saying in the latest dream.  It was Latin, all
right -- but it was so bad I probably would have flunked a test with it.

  When I dream, I usually but not always (seem to) dream in the language
appropriate to the location and/or parties involved.  This means that
some dreams are at least bi-lingual.

  A related? point:  Especially when I had not been living in my L2
country (Germany) very long and really especially when I had to see a
bureaucrat, I would dress rehearse what I would say before I had a
conversation.  Since then, I have sometimes been back in my mother
country (USA)  and found myself going through the same proce dure
(sometimes in German, sometimes in English) when I have a "heavy"
interview coming up.  Then I jog myself and say 'Hey, I don't have to do
this!'

KIM DAMMERS  U. Goettingen.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
LINGUIST List: Vol-9-104