9.796, Sum: Italian NP

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LINGUIST List:  Vol-9-796. Thu May 28 1998. ISSN: 1068-4875.

Subject: 9.796, Sum: Italian NP

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=================================Directory=================================

1)
Date:  Wed, 27 May 1998 16:46:34 -0700 (PDT)
From:  bingfu <bingfu at usc.edu>
Subject:  summary of Italian NP

-------------------------------- Message 1 -------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 27 May 1998 16:46:34 -0700 (PDT)
From:  bingfu <bingfu at usc.edu>
Subject:  summary of Italian NP

Dear Netters,

	A while ago, I posted the following query.  Longogbardi 1994
provides the following paradigm.

a.      Il  mio Giani ha finalmente telefonato	
        the my Gianni    finally    called up

b.      *Mio Gianni ha finalmente telefonato
          my Gianni    finally    called up

c.      Gianni mio ha finalmente telefonato		
        Gianni my     finally    called up
        Gianni my     finally    called up

d.      Il  Gianni  mio ha finalmente telefonato	
        the Gianni  my     finally    called up


He accounts for the paradigm in formalist terms and takes them as
crucial evidence for N movement hypothesis.

My questions are:

1. Is there any functional explanation?

2. Is there any meaning difference among a, c and d, especially
between c and d.

	Bingfu Lu

	I now got eight responses and the following is my summary for
your information.  If somebody needs all these responses, let me know
and I will forward them to the individual.

			SUMMARY

Most importantly, several netters pointed out that the four sentences
belong to different Italian dialects.  Specifically, (a) is of
standard Italian (Northern dialect) and (c) and (d) are of Southern
dialects.

The explanation of the pragmatic differences among the four sentences
seem to be various form person to person.

Francesca Fici points out that both (b) and (d) are bad.

Rick Mc Callister says that while article + possessive + noun is the
norm in standard Italian for inanimate objects, the article is dropped
for human relationships.

Giampaolo Poletto provides a very detailed explanation of the
differences among the four.  In his, opinions, (b) is not completely
bad, but just not complete.

Nigel J. Ross claims: (b). could more or less be heard in fast speech,
the article "il" being just about lost. Nevertheless, there would be
some slight slurred indication of the presence of "il".  In addition
to regional difference, (c) could also suggest a slightly stronger
involvement, perhaps indicating a closer affection (than a.) In the
Italian versions of "Oh my God!": "O mio Dio!" and "O Dio mio!", the
second is in some ways stronger, more tragic, and - of course - more
southern (more histrionic??).


	Thanks for the followin netters who offered their responses.

Giulia Bencini <bencini at psych.colorado.edu
Pier Marco Bertinetto" <bertiNET at SNS.IT
Rick Mc Callister <rmccalli at MUW.Edu
Francesca Fici <frafici at CESIT1.UNIFI.IT
Seth Jerchower <sejerchower at JTSA.EDU
Gabriele Pallotti <pallotti at dsc.unibo.it
Giampaolo Poletto <brave at chiostro.univr.it>, <dylandog at btk.jpte.hu>
Nigel J. Ross" <njross at iol.it

Bingfu Lu
USC


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