LL-L: "Etymology" [E/S] LOWLANDS-L, 08.AUG.1999 (03)

Sun Aug 8 23:33:34 UTC 1999

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From: Sandy Fleming [sandy at fleimin.demon.co.uk]
Subject: LL-L: "Etymology" [E] LOWLANDS-L, 07.AUG.1999 (01)

> From: john feather [johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk]
> Subject: Etymology
>
> whether the
> US use of "ass" instead of BE "arse" arose in the reverse way. In
> British RP
> "arse" is homophonic with upper-class/military "ass" (once more a
> simpleton,
> fool, etc), pronounced "ahss". Perhaps the Colonials misunderstood the
> epithet hurled at them by the Redcoat officers.Or perhaps there
> is some more
> plausible explanation.

> From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
> Subject: Etymology
>
> > Your use of the word "reanalized" inevitably caused me to
> wonder whether the
> > US use of "ass" instead of BE "arse" arose in the reverse way.
>
> Though I don't want to shrug off your suggestion it'd take a lot
> of convincing
> to make me change my hitherto held "theory" (a.k.a. assumption)
> that we are
> simply dealing with one of the many replacement words created in American
> Puritan-derived culture, in the mode of  (common?) English

"Ass" doesn't originate in America, but, like many words now thought of as
Americanisms, orginate and are still used in the "Wessexian" dialect of
south west England.

Examples:

ass
cuss
hoss
holly (American "holler")
fall (meaning "autumn" - Wessexian for the other sense of "fall" (fall down)
is "vall")
ary (meaning "ever a")
faggot (in Wessexian, this is a "hussy")
How do? (American "howdy")
mighty (meaning "great" or "very")
muggy (warm & humid)
perdy (pretty)
reckon (meaning "think, suppose")

It seems to me that some features of Appalachian speech normally assumed to
come from Scots could just as easily have come from Wessex, e.g. "afore"
(Wessexian, "avore"), "jine" (join), "bile" (boil) &c.

Various features of the accent seem to be preserved in the modern American
accent too, e.g. Wessexian "bedder", "madder", "liddle", "kiddle" for
"better", "matter", "little", "kettle", pronunciation of "a" after "w" and
suchlike.

I blame the Plymouth Brethren!

Sandy Fleming
http:\\www.fleimin.demon.co.uk

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From: Ian James Parsley [parsley at btinternet.com]
Subject: LL-L: "Etymology" [E] LOWLANDS-L, 07.AUG.1999 (01)

Doug,

Ay, A wud jalouse a fek fowk's "clueless" *acause* the'r "inattentive", sae ye
cud uise _goamless_ fur "clueless" i som contexts. Bot A wud mynn you at ye maun
tak tent an uisean sic wurds, an A wudna say ye cud aye uise _goamless_ an lukan
tae owreset "clueless" (the mair ye aiblans cud an owresettan "inattentive").
------------------------------------------------------------
Ian James Parsley.
Co Down, Northern Ireland.
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/1677
"JOY - Jesus, Others, You"

----------

From: john feather [johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk]
Subject: Etymology

Ron

I sympathise with your acculturation problems. I suspect that we British are
less sensitive because we "know" we are speaking correctly!

But it is very difficult to understand the limits of US prudishness. One
meaning of "can" is "buttocks". Back in the 1950s/60s a fruit-canning
company advertised its products on billboards in the USA using the figure of
a young woman wearing shorts and presenting her buttocks in a way which any
chimpanzee would recognise, accompanied by a punning slogan based on "can".

Now that I've introduced the word "can" I'd like to ask about it in a
different context. I recently read an SF novel which the British author had
tried to locate in the USA simply by changing a few words into what he took
to be their US equivalents. The result was incongruous and it  took me a few
pages to realise that he was not trying to say that US English had displaced
BE even in its homeland. Anyway, the hero - an academic of some kind - was
sitting in the garden of his country cottage smoking a pipe which he filled
from a "can" of tobacco. Assuming that the container holds 50-100 g of
tobacco it seems to me that "can" is not the correct "translation". "Tin" is
the BE word and normally translates as "can" in USE, but not I think in this
case. I have tried asking Americans what they would call "a small metal
container in which tobacco or cough lozenges are sold" (or words to that
effect) but have generally received no answer at all. They don't know. My
own feeling is that "box" might be the right answer. It certainly has a
slightly different scope in the two languages. Can any Lowlander help me out
with this problem?

Can anybody suggest why Americans pronounce 'Robin 'Hood as 'Robinhood?

John Feather
johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk

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