LL-L: "Conjunctions" [Ap/E] LOWLANDS-L, 03.JUN.1999 (03)

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From:  Elsie Zinsser <ezinsser at simpross.co.za>
Subject: Conjunctions

Hi, all!

Ruud rharmsen at knoware.nl <mailto:rharmsen at knoware.nl>  responded
        It is common (although I don't say "als" myself), but not or
hardly increasingly so. Both "dan" and "als" have a very long history in
Dutch, which is why "als" is now often considered a correct variant also
in standard language. There is modern Dutch tendency to say "as hem"
here. As is becoming a proposition rather than a conjunction. Cf.
English in the respect.

Ja, Ruud, in Afrikaans gebruik voorskoolse kinders ook die vorm "Ek is
groter dan/as _hom_".

Alfred Brothers said:
        Someone else mentioned that the use of 'dan' here tends to be
used by older generations of Afrikaans speakers as well as in some other
Afr. dialects. Do you find this to be true, also?

Amongst city folk, yes. I think Orange River Afr. might use _dan_ more.
The long /a/ is also nasalized (Namibia and Northern Cape Afrikaans),
for example in
 [h at is xro:t? da:~ Ek]

Also: > In some speech variants in Afrikaans the /d/ phoneme in _dat_
becomes a > /l/ as in:
        > (Hy sê lat hy eers met sy ma daaroor wil praat)
        > (Sy het gesê lat sy wel gaan kom)

AB: That's quite interesting. Wonder how that came about?

The tongue contact at the dental base is similar for pronouncing /l/ and
/d/
and secondary Afrikaans speakers might have 'heard' it wrongly and
repeating what they've heard.
The form "Laat ek dit doen" could also have been confused with "...dat
ek dit doen" and becoming
 "...lat ek dit doen"

I know a guy who speaks Venda as mother tongue and he pronounces
_sleutel_ (slQt at l] as [(snQt at l], so
there must be some cause for confusion when hearing the /l/d/t/ in an
already rounded and diphtongized environment.

Fricatives are also confused: _graf_ (grave) [xraf] is often pronounced
_gras_ [xras] (the fact that graveyard areas abound in lawn obviously
reinforces the confusion)

Cheers!

Elsie Zinsser

----------

From:  Richard L Turner <fr.andreas at juno.com>
Subject: Conjunctions

Hey Ar!

"Alfred Brothers's last question of May 19, (2) was:
> And finally, are there any Low Saxon/English/Scots/other LL dialects
> which use exclusively (or predominantly) forms of 'than' or the
> conjunction 'that' without the 'th/d' phoneme at the beginning? For
> example, colloquial English "bigger 'n life" for "bigger than..." or
"he
> says 'at he's coming" for "he says that..."."

Eah, hit's considerable so in Appalachian. Ar is a common contraction fer
Thar, An (or a final 'n) is a common contraction fer Than ([Den] or
[D at n], not hardly ever [D{n]) an At is the commonest form fer That. A
baady don't haurdly never hear em (ar's a nuthern) edh's, or what have
ye, ataw araon hyer. Then is awmost always Then, which is te say at Aa
cain't thank o no instance whar hit ain't.

(Standard English:
Yes, it's mostly like that in Appalachian... {examples}One hardly ever
hears the edh, or whatever that the were, at all around here. I can think
of no instance where the [D] in Then is not pronounced.)

They is laable te be somebaady a-readin is (ar's a nuthern) at knows
better'n me. Aa'm a-hopin te hear.
(Eng: There is, perhaps, someone reading this message that knows better than I
and from whom I hope to hear.)

Yorn,
+Fr Andreas Richard Turner.

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