LL-L: "Conjunctions" [D/E/F] LOWLANDS-L, 04.JUN.1999 (01)

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From: Brandsma <brandsma at twi.tudelft.nl>
Subject: Conjunctions

>From:  Ruud Harmsen <rharmsen at knoware.nl>
>Subject: Conjunctions
>
>J.H. van de Pol:
>>Finally, there is an interjection "at", which can always remain
>untranslated,
>>occurring at fixed places in several Twents sentences. An example is:
>>"Ik weet nich woar at 't weurdken 'at' herkump" (D.: "Ik weet niet
>waar het
>>woordje 'at' vandaan komt";
>
>Of: "Ik weet niet waar dat het woordje 'at' vandaan komt"
>Of: "Ik weet niet waar of dat het woordje 'at' vandaan komt"
>
>Ook heel gewoon in gesproken Nederlands uit heel andere gebieden dan
>Twente, bijv. het westen van Nederland. Ik heb de indruk dat vooral
>oudere mensen dit zeggen, het is aan het verdwijnen.
>
>--
>Ruud Harmsen - http://utopia.knoware.nl/~rharmsen/
>
Hoi,

Efkes wat Fryske feiten bybringe: Yn it Westerlauwer Frysk is der ek
betizing tusken "oft/at" [ot] en "as" [os]. Ik sil in pear foarbylden fan
harren gebru^k jaan:

"ik wit net at/oft ik him noch sjen sil hjoed"
I do not know whether I will still see him today.

"ik wit net we^r't er wei komt"
I do not know where (+'t < oft or < dat?, now a petrified and obligatory
use.) he comes from.

"as ik him sjoch, sil ik him sizze dast der wiest"
When I see him , I will tell him that you were there.

"as ik komme soe, soe ik net wolkom we^ze"
If I would come, I wouldn't be welcome.

(beide les^ten kinne ek as bynwurd (conjunction) bru^kt wurde.)
En, heeltyd mear sprekkers bru^ke "at" ynstee fan "as" yn 'e le^ste sin.
(mar net sa faak yn de earste fan dy twa)

Fierders wurdt allinne mar "as" bru^kt yn ferlikings:

"Hy is grutter as ik" of "Hy is grutter as my"
He is taller than me.
(Ik soe beide mooglikheden wol bru^ke kinne.)

Groetnis,

Henno

----------

From: Brandsma <brandsma at twi.tudelft.nl>
Subject: Conjunctions

Good Day, all!

Elsie Zinsser <ezinsser at simpross.co.za> wrote:

>Ja, Ruud, in Afrikaans gebruik voorskoolse kinders ook die vorm "Ek is
>groter dan/as _hom_".

Afsgesien van hierdie naamval, in Afrikaans gebruik 'n mens verkieslik _dan_
wanneer jy 'n dubbel gebruik van _as_ wil voorkom:

*Met my as bestuurder kom ons eerder tuis aan as as hy die kar bestuur.
Met my as bestuurder kom ons eerder tuis aan dan as hy die kar bestuur.

>Also: > In some speech variants in Afrikaans the /d/ phoneme in _dat_
>becomes a > /l/ as in:
>         > (Hy sê lat hy eers met sy ma daaroor wil praat)
>         > (Sy het gesê lat sy wel gaan kom)
>
>AB: That's quite interesting. Wonder how that came about?
>
>The tongue contact at the dental base is similar for pronouncing /l/ and
>/d/
>and secondary Afrikaans speakers might have 'heard' it wrongly and
>repeating what they've heard.
>The form "Laat ek dit doen" could also have been confused with "...dat
>ek dit doen" and becoming
>  "...lat ek dit doen"

Blykbaar kom hierdie konstruksie ook voor in Vlaanderen (vgl. J. du P.
Scholtz) waar onder invloed van 'laat' die woord 'dat' 'n 'l' as anlaut
gekry het.
Dus dit kan wees dat dit nie 'n uitsluitlik Suid-Afrikaanse ontwikkeling was
nie.

Groete, Marcel

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