Subject: LL-L: "Orthography" [S] LOWLANDS-L, 05.JUN.1999 (01)

Sat Jun 5 22:33:47 UTC 1999

 ==========================================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L * 05.JUN.1999 (01) * ISSN 1089-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
 Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
 Web Site: <http://www.geocities.com/~sassisch/rhahn/lowlands/>
 User's Manual: <http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html>
 ==========================================================================
 You have received this because your account has been subscribed upon
 request. To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l"
 as message text from the same account to
 <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or sign off at
 <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
 ==========================================================================

From: "Sandy Fleming" <sandy at fleimin.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Orthography

John wrate:

> I wis gaun ti say, "Whit wey? Are ye sittin nearhaund a dug?",
> but I better
> no or I'll mibbie get flung aff the list - even efter ye caain me a 'nut'
> thon time an aa!

Weel, that's the dug awa greetin nou!

> Weel, I wadna jump ti ower monie conclusions aboot it bein a guid idea
> afore tryin it oot an seein whit the affcomes leuks like. Pairt o the
> problem is kennin exactly whit words belangs whit types - Andy's field
> again - tho I suppose the English spellin - EE, EA, A-E - wad be richt in
> maist cases in cognate words. Aiblins the SND wad gie ye the auld Scots or
> Anglo Saxon etymologies o ithers? For the differ atween BEAT an
> BEET types,
> ye can maistly tell juist frae CSD (for practical ettles oniewey - an
> that's whit we'r concerned wi efter an aa) cause the BEAT types
> is the anes
> at haes variants in [i] an [e], whaurbyes the BEET types juist haes [i].
>

Ay, but that's what A'v been tryin tae dae onywey - it is a job sortin oot
the kins o words, but A couldna see fowk (at laest in Central) cannin git
their heids roond spellins like "haed" for "heid". Houiver, if Doric
spaekers can thole "heid" for [he:d] syne that's a step forrit. It wisna
aesy tae aye check aa words afore, but nou that A'v got a custom dictionar
set up for Scots, A can howp A'll no hae tae check ony words mair than ance!

(Anent LAS(3)):

> - e.g. _maet_ an _met_, at disna rhyme in Shetland nor in monie
> ither airts
> as faur's I ken - is pitten thegither under the same polyphoneme, \E\. Nae
> dout the'r some theoretical raeson for this, but I canna see whit
> practical
> uiss it is ava.

Ay, that's the kin o thing that gars me think A hinna unnerstuid it richt.
The theoretical raeson here micht be that thae polyphonemes is meant tae be
actual hiestorical phonemes that in, say, Middle Scots wis thirlt ilk tae ae
airt, but nou hiv chynged their soondins in different sub-airts o thae airts
an mibbie migratit a bittie an aa. This wad mean that the modren vairsions o
thae things could be ablo ae polyphoneme (like \E\) for purely hiestorical
raesons, i.e. they baith ance belanged the ae _polyphoneme_ (no juist
phoneme), lang back syne.

This wad mean as weel that the LAS(3) seestem o polyphonemes micht no can be
uized as onything abuin a approximate guide tae modren soondins - that it
disna hae adae wi modren diaphonemes ava, forby juist indirectly.

Sandy Fleiman
http:\\www.fleimin.demon.co.uk

----------

From: "John M. Tait" <jmtait at jmt.prestel.co.uk>
Subject: Orthography

Andy wrate anent _bruise_

>The CSD didna hae bruise but Brizz an Birz cf. Gress an Girs. [briz, briz=
>,
>bIrz *brAIz *bIrs]
>
>The etymology o bruise is AS brysan (lang y) mingelt wi auld Frensh
>brisier, bruiser, bruser (tae brak).
>
>It disna seem tae be a clessical 'ui' wird fae AS lang o. Aiblins bi
>anology its conceidert ane in some dialects an no in ithers. Tho lucky fo=
>r
>us we'll mibbie no hae tae airgie anent the spellin. Bruise is weel kent

I wis interestit ti see at _birze_ is thocht ti be the same word as
_bruise_. In baith Shetland an the NE, _birze_ means _press_ an _bruise_ as
faur's I ken is juist [bru:z].

Houaniver, i the Linguistic Atlas, for the Hamnavoe dialect (less nor hauf
a mile frae whaur I come frae) _bruise_ is pitten in alang wi _uise_ (at
certainly haes the [2] soond) an a puckle ither words - _move_, _prove_, an
queerest o aa, _love_ at I hinna haurd said wi [2] soonds. This is juist
ane o a puckle anomalies atween the LAS record o the Hamnavoe dialect an
the wey I speak - an I'm certainly no awaur o onie differ atween the wey
thay speak an the wey I div. I canna understaund whit wey the LAS
representation o ither Shetlandic dialects frae faurer awa is mair like the
wey I speak. I wad like ti ken wha thay gat thair wittins frae. Houaniver,
anent _bruise_, a possible explanation is at this is a word I niver haurd
uised whan I wis young - the normal Shetlandic for a bruise is 'blue-melt'.
Canna figure 'love' tho. I'll need ti speir aboot neist time I gang hame.

John M. Tait.

==================================END=======================================
 * Please submit contributions to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>.
 * Contributions will be displayed unedited in digest form.
 * Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
 * Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are to
   be sent to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
   <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
 * Please use only Plain Text format, not Rich Text (HTML) or any other
   type of format, in your submissions
 ========================================================================