LL-L: "Verbs" [E] LOWLANDS-L, 09.JUN.1999 (03)

[Lowlands-L Administrator]

 ==========================================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L * 09.JUN.1999 (03) * ISSN 1089-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
 Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
 Web Site: <http://www.geocities.com/~sassisch/rhahn/lowlands/>
 User's Manual: <http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html>
 ==========================================================================
 You have received this because your account has been subscribed upon
 request. To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l"
 as message text from the same account to
 <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or sign off at
 <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
 ==========================================================================

From: Ian James Parsley <parsleyij at hotmail.com>
Subject: Strong Verbs

Ron,

Thanks a lot for your offer of help, and a possible explanation I hadn't
heard before, though I wonder whether it will ever be possible to prove the
truth of that matter clearly. Of course, rather than having some
pre-historic origins, it may also be that the dental suffix marker was a
sort of grammatical loan. My own knowledge of Uralic or Finno-Ugric
languages amounts to zero, but I do understand that other such loans are
possible.

Of course, I will continue to let the list know of any developments (such as
whether I've actually got the grant to do the study, which is, as money is
tight in the UK at present, unlikely) as I go on, but it's certainly useful
to have such help close at hand!

Regards to all,

----------
From: "Sandy Fleming" <sandy at fleimin.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Verbs

Ian wrote:

> > Very occasionally verbs "strengthen" apparently by their own accord -
> > consider "dig-digged" of the King James Bible - but this is very
> > rare. It is interesting, however, to note Sandy's example of
> > "slide-slid" apparently shifting to "slide-slade" (altho' I don't
> > know the history of the verb - perhaps the shift was the other way).
> > I would be most interested to hear examples of weak verbs becoming
> > strong or strong verbs "changing class" from all Lowlands languages,
> > particularly the lesser-used ones.
>
"Slade", as you realise, was written by an East Lothian writer at the turn
of the century - I'm from East Lothian, but my brother and I use the weak
from "slydit" ['slE at dI?]. We also use the weak form of "bide" ['bE at dI?]. It
might interest you to hear that our mother (originally from a town only 7
miles from our village) was always trying to correct us on this - she
insisted there was no such word as "bydit" and we should say either "bade"
or "bid" (note analogy, slid : bid). There is also no support in any Scots
dictionaries or literature that I can find for the weak forms of "slide" or
"bide". I would conclude that this form has "weakened" only in my own
generation, somewhere around the 1950's or 60's. I do also quite naturally
use the form "bid" sometimes, though.

Ron wrote:

> I was struck by the difference between American and non-American English
> regarding the verb 'sneak':
>
> American:  sneak  -  snuck  -  snuck
> Non-American:  sneak  -  sneaked  -  sneaked
>
> Are the American forms innovations or more ancient?  By the way,
> many Americans
> find it very odd, in fact ungrammatical, when I say 'sneaked'.
> I, on the other
> hand, am having a hard time making myself say _snuck_, because it
> sounds so
> "wrong" ...

Could this seeming "wrongness" be to do with the lack of other grammatical
analogy? The verbs seek, freak out, greek, creak, leak, peek, speak, peak,
squeak and streak don't become suck, fruck out, gruck, cruck, luck, puck,
spuck, puck, skwuck or struck. I suppose it arises by analogy with some past
tense forms such as "struck", "stuck" &c, but the eak -> uck mutation
doesn't actually exist elsewhere in the language.

Sandy Fleming
http:\\www.fleimin.demon.co.uk

==================================END=======================================
 * Please submit contributions to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>.
 * Contributions will be displayed unedited in digest form.
 * Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
 * Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are to
   be sent to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
   <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
 * Please use only Plain Text format, not Rich Text (HTML) or any other
   type of format, in your submissions
 ========================================================================