LL-L: "Help needed" [E] LOWLANDS-L, 05.OCT.1999 (06)
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Tue Oct 5 22:41:03 UTC 1999
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L O W L A N D S - L * 05.OCT.1999 (06) * ISSN 1089-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachean, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
LS=Low Saxon (Low German), S=Scots, Sh=Shetlandic
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From: Pat Reynolds [pat at caerlas.demon.co.uk]
Subject: LL-L: "Help needed" [E] LOWLANDS-L, 03.OCT.1999 (05)
>From: john feather [johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk]
>Subject: Help needed [E]
>
>Pat asked >>does anyone know of any
>evidence that these hooks _were_ used for awnings, banners or bunting?<<
>
>There was a strip of metal curled into a flat spiral as a decoration on the
>corner of our roof. On VE Day (1945) a flag was hung on a rope (a.k.a. our
>washing line) stretched from this down to a fence post. I deduce from this
>that if people are sufficiently motivated to hang out flags, banners or
>bunting they will use whatever is to hand.
>
The bit of metal you describe is a hip-iron. It has a useful function:
it stops the tiles sliding off. It needs to have a bit coming up at the
end, but it doesn't need to be curled into a flat spiral - I guess that
this was done partly for functional reasons (to stop people poking their
eyes out, should they be waving their heads above the guttering) and
partly decorative (there being a long tradition of fancy finials and
other things described, I understand, by the building trade as "gob-
ons").
The hooks on wall-ties do not contribute to their primary function
(holding a beam and a wall in secure, but flexible proximity), and most
wall-ties don't have them.
So now we have three scenarios:
the hooks were designed for bunting or banners (English name)
or they were designed for awnings (Dutch name)
or they were designed for some other function, or purely decorative but
people put flags (?and awnings) on them anyway (the observation of what
human nature does with a bit of sticking-out metal on a building).
Best wishes to all,
--
Pat Reynolds
pat at caerlas.demon.co.uk
"It might look a bit messy now, but just you come back in 500 years time"
(T. Pratchett)
----------
From: Floor van Lamoen [f.v.lamoen at wxs.nl]
Subject: LL-L: "Help needed" [E] LOWLANDS-L, 05.OCT.1999 (03)
Klaas wrote:
> > In Dutch (at least in my regional variant) we have the word 'boeleke'
which
> means baby and which > fits in the song as well but gives it a whole other
> meaning.
> >
> > I looked up 'boele' in the Verdam Middelnederlandsch Handwoordenboek and
> there it says that it
> > means (lit) "I) Naam voor de naaste verwanten, volle en halve broeders,
> zwagers (oostmnl.) 2)
> > geliefde (ook ml. van eene vrouw); ook van geestelijke betrekkingen 3)
> minnaar, minnares." which
> > is 1) Name for close relatives, full and half brothers, brothers in law 2)
> lover (also ml? of a
> > woman);
> > also spiritual engagements. 3) lover, out of the marritial bond' No sign
of
> the meaning baby there.
Reinhard answered:
> Now this *is* very interesting! Right from the start I got onto this 'baby'
> and 'lullaby' track, and what you started saying seemed to confirm this,
> though "I'll make you a (= my) baby" doesn't make a lot of sense, unless you
> think of a stranger adopting an abandoned or orphaned baby, for instance
(like
> in the lovely Yiddish lullaby _S'dremlen feygl oyf di tsvaygn_). But then I
> saw the Middle Dutch meaning, and ... aha! This seems to give the song a
> totally different spin, and a rather "naughty" one too. Yes, indeed! There
> is the Modern Low Saxon word /boul/ _Bool_ (~ _Bohl_) [boUl] 'female sexual
> partner (to whom one is not married)', along with the verb /boul-/ _bolen_
(~
> _bohlen_) [boUln] 'to court', 'to have non-marital sexual relations', and
the
> adjective/adverb /boul+S/ _boolsch_ (~ _bohlsch_) 'courting ...',
> '(illegitimately) sexual' (German _Buhle_, _buhlen_ and _buhlerisch_
> respectively), though these are virtually obsolete, are not used in modern
> life contexts, as far as I know. Certainly, it fits sound-wise: German
/uu/
> and Dutch /uu/ (_oe_) = LS /ou/ _oo_ (cf. _gut_ = _goed_ = _good_ [goUt]).
>
> So I assume that in its diminutive form _boleken_ it means something like
> 'sweetheart'.
Dear Reinhard and Klaas,
To be honest, I am not really convinced. It seems more reasonable to me
to think that 'boleken' here is a diminuitive of 'bol'. Not as a noun,
but as an adjective "round". So the boy or man wants to make "round and
swollen", i.e. pregnant.
And "dus also" seems tautological to me.
> Hence my revision from lullaby to love or courtship song:
>
> Song 54:
>
> Ligge stille, ligge stille,
> ik wil dik en boleken maken
> dus also
> up deme stro
> sunder syden laken.
>
> "Lie still, lie still!
> I shall make you my sweetheart
> just like this,
> on this straw [bed]
> without a silken sheet."
Lie still, lie still!
I want to make round and swollen
so
on the straw
without a silken sheet.
> The guy certainly didn't mince words ... It doesn't seem much different
from
> certain medieval courtship songs. (This directness fell by the wayside in
> later periods.)
He seems even more direct than you thought?
Floor van Lamoen.
----------
From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Help needed
Floor wrote:
> To be honest, I am not really convinced. It seems more reasonable to me
> to think that 'boleken' here is a diminuitive of 'bol'. Not as a noun,
> but as an adjective "round". So the boy or man wants to make "round and
> swollen", i.e. pregnant.
...
> Lie still, lie still!
> I want to make round and swollen
> so
> on the straw
> without a silken sheet.
OK, and so the plot thickens ...
I assume your tongue was not in your cheek, Floor.
Actually, so far I have not come across adjectival or adverbial diminutives in
MidLS (which does not mean that there are are none). To me they are
"typically western" and "Dutch-like," also in ModLS. I have come across
_stillkens_ 'very quietly', 'on the quiet', 'on the sly', 'secretly' but I
think that was in a far-western dialect (Eastern Friesland or
Ollenborg/Oldenburg) where "Dutch-like" usage and constructions (as seen from
our eastern vantage point) abound. As mentioned on an earlier occasion, we
use one adverbial diminutive farther east: _suutje_ ['zu:tje] '(very) gently'
(e.g., _Man suutje!_ 'Easy now!', 'Don't rush it!') which appears to have been
derived from Dutch _zoetje_ ['zU(:)tj@] (< _zoet_ [zu(:)t] 'sweet'; cf. LS
_sööt_ [zœIt] ~ [zOIt] 'sweet').
> > The guy certainly didn't mince words ... It doesn't seem much different
from
> > certain medieval courtship songs. (This directness fell by the wayside in
> > later periods.)
>
> He seems even more direct than you thought?
Ah ... Much as I enjoy your company, Floor, I don't know if I want to go down
that road with you. ;) I still favor the nominal /boule+ken/ theory. I'd be
surprised if procreation was what that guy had in mind.
> And "dus also" seems tautological to me.
And technically speaking it is, but I take it as being emphatic, expressing
something like "just like this/that" or "precisely thus." In MidLS, the
non-emphatic form of _also_ (more often _alsô_) is _alse_ or _alze_ in some
songs (or is that a MidHG loan? Cf. OHG _alze_ 'thus', 'so'). _Dus_ is more
often written _düs_.
Thanks for your input.
Best regards.
Reinhard/Ron
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