LL-L: "Etymology" [E] LOWLANDS-L, 09.OCT.1999 (01)

[Lowlands-L Administrator]

 =========================================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L * 09.OCT.1999 (01) * ISSN 1089-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
 Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
 Web Site: <http://www.geocities.com/~sassisch/rhahn/lowlands/>
 User's Manual: <http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html>
 =========================================================================
 A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachean, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German), S=Scots, Sh=Shetlandic
 =========================================================================
 You have received this because your account has been subscribed upon
 request. To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l"
 as message text from the same account to
 <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or sign off at
 <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
 =========================================================================

From: Reuben Epp [repp at silk.net]
Subject:  LL-L: "Etymology" [E] LOWLANDS-L, 08.OCT.1999 (05)

>From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
>Subject: Etymology (was "Help needed")
>
>Dear Lowlanders,
>
>This is going to be all about crustaceans, or "shellfish," and I wonder if
>some of you would care to give me some input.
>
>In Low Saxon (Low German), and under its influence also in Northern German
>dialect, there have been a couple of shifts in the terminology of 'crab'
and
>'shrimp'.
>
>A common word for 'crab' (_Decapoda - Brachyura_) appears to be represented
by
>ModLS _Kreevt_ ~ _Kreeft_ ~ _Krääft_ [kre:ft] (cf. German _Krebs_).  In
some
>dialects it seems to mean both 'crab' and 'cancer', in others it appears to
>mean only 'cancer', and 'crab' is represented by what I assume to be a
>descriptive replacement word: /dvars-löüper/ _Dwarslöper_ ['dva:s,lœIpV] ~
>['dva:s,lOIpV] "sideways walker."  Are there any relatives of _Kreevt_ and
>_Dwarslöper_ in other Germanic languages?
>
>English _crab_ comes from Old English _crabba_ and is related for instance
to
>Dutch _krab_, Swedish _krabba_ (< MidLS?), Danish/Norwegian _krabbe_(<
>MidLS?), all with the same meaning.  In Modern Low Saxon (and in Northern
>German), however, _Krabb(e)_ means 'shrimp'!  What happened there?
>
It appears that Lindow also lists 'Granaat' as a western Low Saxon word for
'shrimp.'

Reuben

----------

From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Etymology

Reuben wrote:

> It appears that Lindow also lists 'Granaat' as a western Low Saxon word for
> 'shrimp.'

Thanks for the tip, Reuben.  Yes, indeed, I should have mentioned that, had been
thinking of it only fleetingly when I mentioned the Dutch word.  To us
"Oosterschen," _Granaat_ is a foreign word.  In fact, Lindow also says that
_Granaat_ belongs to western dialects of Low Saxon.  I take this as referring to
the dialects of Eastern Friesland and perhaps Oldenburg.  I further assume that
this is the word used in the Low Saxon dialects of the Netherland, although I am
sure Lindow did not have them in mind (for he does not mention them in his
dictionary and in the grammar he and others wrote -- tsk-tsk!).

What Lindow also mentions is that in that dialect area _Granaat_ does not only
refer to 'shrimp' but also to _kleiner Krebs_, which I understand to mean not
'small crab' but 'small lobster-type crustacean', perhaps including freshwater
types (like those that are called 'crawfish' or 'crawdad' in the US and 'marron'
in Australia).  So it may well be a collective term for 'small (edible?)
crustacean (found locally?)'.

This leads me to ask what you call 'crab' and 'shrimp' in Plautdietsch.  Are the
old Dutch or Frisian words preserved?  Did Plautdietsch inherit the West
Prussian dialect words at the Baltic Sea shore, and what were they?  I can
hardly imagine they picked up the Russian or Ukrainian words, since they mostly
lived in non-coastal regions in the east.  Might American Mennonites have
adopted the English, Spanish and Portuguese words when they encountered
different types of crabs and shrimps in the "New" World?

Best regards,

Reinhard/Ron

==================================END======================================
 * Please submit contributions to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>.
 * Contributions will be displayed unedited in digest form.
 * Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
 * Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
   to be sent to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
   <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
 * Please use only Plain Text format, not Rich Text (HTML) or any other
   type of format, in your submissions
 =========================================================================