LL-L: "Nautical terms" LOWLANDS-L, 18.OCT.1999 (02) [E/Spanish]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 18.OCT.1999 (02) * ISSN 1089-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Jorge Potter [jorgepot at caribe.net]
Subject: LL-L: "Nautical terms" LOWLANDS-L, 17.OCT.1999 (01) [E]

Ian,

De hecho, sin ser experto en esta cuestión, el único vocablo en la lengua de
origen directo de los países bajos es la palabra rica y flamante "flamenco".
¡ Qué maravilloso sería tener un diccionario etimológico en la computadora y
así poder buscar todo de cualquier renglón !

En cuanto a tu pregunta, estoy seguro que el español había importado los
términos náuticos y otros previo a la posesión española de lo que es hoy la
Bélgica. No creo que los españoles llegaran a dominar el territorio de la
actual Holanda.

Jorge

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Nautical terms

Dear Jorge,

Thanks for your explanations.  Of course it would be great to have all that
information available in publicly accessible digital form.  I think that will
happen in the relatively near future, considering the fast growing amount of
"esoteric" reference information on the Internet.  We now have online
dictionaries for language varieties that in the past received little public
attentions, such as for Plautdietsch (Mennonite Low Saxon), and there seems to
be a growing number of online etymological dictionaries also.

Naturally, anyone who knows anything about the history of relations between
Spain and the Low Countries also knows that direct contacts existed between the
languages of Spain (predominantly Castilian) and the *southern* Dutch (Low
Franconian) language varieties, namely those of what is now Belgium (usually
lumped together under the name "Flemish").  I suppose we must assume that any
other types of Lowlandic loans reached Castilian indirectly.  Or did they?  What
if we do find that certain loans are of Low Saxon origin?  Then, I suppose, we
could ascribe this to Low Saxon loans in those southern Dutch varieties (bearing
in mind that (1) there was massive Saxon immigration into Flanders and that (2)
the ports of Belgium used to have direct contacts with the Low-Saxon-speaking
Hanseatic ports and also used Middle Low Saxon as a lingua franca).  But what if
we can not attest to the existence of such loans in Dutch?  Is there any trace
of evidence of direct contacts between Spanish and Hanseatic sailors and
merchants?

Another question is if there have been any direct contacts between Dutch
colonialists and Spanish speakers (i.e., colonialists as well as "natives") in
the "New" World (mostly the Caribbean) resulting in Dutch loans in Latin
American or specifically Caribbean Spanish.

Thanks for having started an interesting discussion.

Best regards,

Reinhard/Ron

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