LL-L: "Multilingualism" LOWLANDS-L, 20.OCT.1999 (02) [E/F]

Wed Oct 20 16:14:37 UTC 1999

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 20.OCT.1999 (02) * ISSN 1089-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Henno Brandsma [Henno.Brandsma at phil.uu.nl]
Subject: Opporunities?

Hoi allegearre,

Ik lies fan 'e moarn yn 'e "Spits" in berjocht fan it ANP:
de Jerepeeske Kommisje wol dat alle ynwenners fan 'e Jerepeeske
Uny foar 2001 neist harren memmetaal nochris twa oare talen fan 'e
Jerepeeske Uny prate kinne. Hjir soene taalkursussen foar opset
wurde moatte op lokaal nivo. De Jerepeeske Kommisje stelt der
26 miljoen gu^ne ta beskikber. It giet net allinne om 'e 11 fiertalen
fan 'e J.U. mar ek om minderheidstalen.

[This morning I read a message from ANP {The Dutch press agency} in
"Spits" {A free morning paper to read on the train}:
The European Committee wants all inhabitants of the EU to be able
to speak two other EU languages, besides their morther tongue, by
the year 2001. To this end local authorities should set up language
courses, and the EC has promised 26 million guilders for this. This
not only concerns the 11 official EU languages, but the minority
languages as well.]

Is dit net in ka^ns? Lit alle Nederlanners ris Frysk, Nedersaksysk of
Limburchsk leare! Foar Ingelsken soe it faaks makliker we^ze kinne om
Skotsk te learen as, sis, Fra^nsk. Du'tsers kinne Noardfrysk,
Nedersaksysk, esfh leare... No soe der faaks wat jild foar kursussen we^ze!

[isn't this an opportunity? Let the Dutch learn Frisian, Low Saxon,
or Limburgian! Maybe for the British it would be easier to learn Scots
than, say, French. Germans could learn North Frisian, Low Saxon, etc.
Maybe now there will be money to fund some courses!]

Hertlike groetenis,

Henno Brandsma

----------

From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Multilingualism

[The following is in Low Saxon (Low German) and English.]

Leve Henno,

Du hest schreven:

> Is dit net in ka^ns? Lit alle Nederlanners ris Frysk, Nedersaksysk of
> Limburchsk leare! Foar Ingelsken soe it faaks makliker we^ze kinne om
> Skotsk te learen as, sis, Fra^nsk. Du'tsers kinne Noardfrysk,
> Nedersaksysk, esfh leare... No soe der faaks wat jild foar kursussen we^ze!

Ja, daar bün ick mit Die heel un deel över eens.  In mien Droomwelt is dat man
bloots de eerste Schridd.  De tweede Schridd?  'n Oksitaansch-snacken
Franzoos' leert Kaschuubsch, 'n Greek leert Freesch, 'n Sweed' leert
Aromansch, 'n Pool leert Scots, 'n Sorb leert Romanès, 'n Kors leert Saami,
u.s.w.  Un de dridde Schridd?  Nich-Europäers leert de "lütten" Spraken vun
Europa.

Dat wardt noch 'n Wiel duurn, ook bit de Sprekers vun de "groten" Spraken jüm
er Instellen to de "lütten" Spraken revideert.   Jüst schreev' mie 'n goden,
olen düütschen Fründ (de Neddersassisch [Nedderdüütsch] man bloots verstaan
kann), dat he jümmers lachen mutt, wenn he in de neddersassischen Versionen
vun de norddüütschen Morgennarichten "derbe" Uutdrücken höört, t.B. staats
düütsch _Die Verhandlungen haben sich festgefahren_ neddersassisch "De
Uutspraken sünd up Schiet lopen".  Up Neddersassisch is dat gaar nich komisch,
un dat Woord "Schiet" hett nich dat sülve Bedüden as düütsch _Scheiße_.  De
Uutdruck "up Schiet lopen" bedüüdt "up Grund lopen", as 'n Schipp dat dait.
Dat is de Gefaar, wenn de Minnerhaitsspraak un de Meerhaitsspraak eng verwandt
sünd un de Minnerhaitsspraak al as 'n "Burenspraak" ankeken wardt.  Düsse Aard
Spijökenkraam kann bloots denn uphören, wenn de Lüüd' de Minnerhaitsspraak
richtig leert un er nich meer as 'n Afaard vun de Meerhaitsspraak ankiekt.
Mien Fründ kann good Ingelsch un Franzöössch.  Lacht he ook, wenn he ingelsche
und franzöössche idiomaatsche Uutdrücken Woord för Woord in't Düütsche
översett?  Ick gloov' dat nich.  Tja, ick glööv', ick mutt em maal up'n Putt
setten ...  :)

Ick glööv', dütt findst ook mank Nedderlanners, wenn se Neddersassisch or
Afrikaans höört or leest.  Ook Freessch?  Un woans reageert Ingelsch-Snackers
up Schottsche Uutdrücken?

You wrote:

> [isn't this an opportunity? Let the Dutch learn Frisian, Low Saxon,
> or Limburgian! Maybe for the British it would be easier to learn Scots
> than, say, French. Germans could learn North Frisian, Low Saxon, etc.
> Maybe now there will be money to fund some courses!]

Yes, I totally agree with you.  But in my dream dream world this is only the
first step.  The second step?  An Occitan-speaking French person studies
Kashubian, a Greek studies Frisian, a Swede studies Aromanian, a Pole studies
Scots, a Sorb studies Romanès, a Corse studies Saami, etc.  And the third
step?  Non-Europeans study Europe's "small" languages.

It will take a while till we get there, also till speakers of the "major"
languages change their attitudes toward the "minor" languages.  A good, old
German friend of mine (who only understands Low Saxon [Low German]) just wrote
in a letter to me that he can't help laughing when in the Low Saxon versions
of the North German moring news he hears "crass" expressions, e.g., instead of
German _Die Verhandlungen haben sich festgefahren_ 'Negotiations have hit an
impasse' Low Saxon _De Uutspraken sünd up Schiet lopen_ ("The discussions have
run onto shit/dirt/soil").  This isn't at all funny in Low Saxon, and the word
_Schiet_ does not have the same meaning as German _Scheiße_.  The expression
_up Schiet lopen_ simply means 'to run aground' (alternative to _up Grund
lopen_).  This is the danger when a majority language and a minority language
are relatively closely related and the minority language already has the
reputation of being "country."  This type of amusement can only stop when
people study the minority language properly and no longer regarded it as some
aberrant version of the majority language.  My friend knows English and French
well.  Does he laugh also when he literally translates English and French
idiomatic expressions (especially going for the etymological base)?  I think
not.  Well, I think the poor guy is due for some expostulation ... ;) *

(* _up'n Putt setten_ (~ _op'n Pott setten_) "to sit (someone) onto the pot",
i.e., 'to rebuke', 'to give a piece of one's mind', is another such example.
The literal German translation _auf den Topf setzen_ sounds ridiculous (as
does the English one).)

I suspect this phenomenon exists also among Dutch speakers hearing or reading
Low Saxon or Afrikaans.  Also Frisian?  How about English speakers' reactions
to Scots expression?

Gröten/Regards,

Reinhard/Ron

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