LL-L: "Ethnonyms" LOWLANDS-L, 22.OCT.1999 (06) [E]

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From: john feather [johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk]
Subject: Ethnonyms [E]

Ron wrote

>>John Feather wrote under "Specialized terms":

> "Gypsy", of  course, can mean either a Romani or someone living in similar
circumstances,
 ie an itinerant worker such as a tinker or horse-breaker.<

Yes, but "living in similar circumstances" assumes a lifestyle (real or
imagined, i.e., being nomadic and keeping apart from Gadje ...<<

I was, of course, trying to indicate the meaning of "gypsy" to the settled
British population. I suspect that the nearest (reasonably) standard English
gets to "didicoy" in the Romani sense is "tinker", but it's not used
universally and has various other meanings. (I can think of at least three.
:-))

It occurs to me that there are ethnonymic differences between (everyday) US
and British English. In the USA, "Asian" means ethnically from the/our Far
East - China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, etc. In Britain, "Asian" means someone
ethnically from the Indian sub-continent and we would use "Chinese", etc,
for American "Asians". (Which is not to say that we cannot use terms like
"Pakistani" when we know a person's specific origin.)

What does "Asiatic" mean? It suggests to me a non-European inhabitant of the
Russian Empire/USSR but is that right?

John Feather  johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Ethnonyms

> It occurs to me that there are ethnonymic differences between (everyday) US
> and British English. In the USA, "Asian" means ethnically from the/our Far
> East - China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, etc. In Britain, "Asian" means someone
> ethnically from the Indian sub-continent and we would use "Chinese", etc,
> for American "Asians". (Which is not to say that we cannot use terms like
> "Pakistani" when we know a person's specific origin.)

Yes, I find that fascinating.  I have the feeling that in the U.S. "Asian" is
mostly a racial term.  (Oops!  The euphemism for that is now "ethnic" or even
"cultural...  ;) )  It denotes anyone looking what once was called
"Mongoloid."  I used to play stupid and ask, "Do you mean someone from ...
Lebanon ... Israel ... Iran ... Pakistan ...?"  "What?!  *They* aren't
*Asian*!"  Hah!  A Finnish friend of mine, who is an ethnic Tatar, was amazed
to be considered "Asian" while visiting the States -- simply on the basis of
her looks.  It had never occurred to her that she could be, having been born
and raised in Europe with ancestry in Tatarstan, a republic in the European
part of the Russian Federation.

As far as I know, "Asiatic" originally meant the same thing U.S. "Asian" now
denotes.  Yes, I have a feeling that oftentimes it is or used to be used to
distinguish "Asian" inhabitants from "European" inhabitants of Zarist Russia
and later of the Soviet Union, my Finnish friend included.

I wrote:

> Incidentally, the traditional Low Saxon name for "Gypsy" is not _Zigeuner_
> (which is German) but _tatar_!  I assume Swedish _tattare_ 'Gypsy' is a
Middle
> Low Saxon loanword.

Actually, the Modern Low Saxon word is _Tater_ ['thQ:tV].

Regards,

Reinhard/Ron

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