LL-L: "Logic" (was "Double negative") [E] LOWLANDS-L, 19.SEP.1999 (01)

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From: Sandy Fleming [sadny at fleimin.demon.co.uk]
Subject: "Logic"

> From: wim kotze [wimkotze at hotmail.com]
> Subject: LL-L: "Doube negative" now "logic"
>
> Whether language is illogical or ultimately logical with an extremely
> complex set of logic and rules underlaying it, does not make the issues of

The problems of translating from one natural language into another do seem
to suggest that languages _are_ logical (though complex, as you say) -
translators have very little leeway if they want to reproduce the meaning
accurately in the target language (though this isn't always the object of
translation). It would certainly be a disaster for a translator to decide
that the positioning of "only" in English was illogical - and treat it as
such! In fact it requires excellent understanding of both languages and
first-class reasoning ability to make a good translation.

I think it's potentially enlightening to ask why "nonsense" language such as
that written by Lewis Carroll and Edward Lear is so much harder to translate
than "sensible" stuff. The first verse of a poem from "Through the Looking
Glass":

JABBERWOCKY

'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe,
All mimsy were the borogoves
And the mome raths outgrabe.

and my rough attempt at translating it into Scots (bits that I can't get
right at all are in brackets, and this is a lot easier in Scots, since the
two languages are close enough for some words to go straight across):

YAMMERWOCHIE

'Twis hoytri[g] an the [sclithy] t[o]ves
Did gyre an [wimmle] in the wy[b]e
Aa [mim]sy wis the boragoves
An the [r]ame raths oot[grybe].

Most of the bits in brackets seem to me to be _impossible_ to translate
correctly - any suggestions?  :>

I know this has been done in many languages, but how accurate are the
translations? For example, in the French "Il brilgue, et les toves
lubricilieux..." "brilgue" isn't French for "brillig" - the translator has
simply transliterated it without thinking about the meaning. I assume he
must have altered Humpty Dumpty's explanation to make it fit the
tramsliteration?

Sandy
http://scotstext.org

She sate upon her Dobie,
To watch the Evening Star,
And all the Punkahs as they passed,
Cried, "My! how fair you are!"
Around her bower, with quivering leaves,
The tall Kamsamahs grew
And Kitmutgars in wild festoons
Hung down from Tchokis blue.

- Edward Lear, "The Cummerbund"

Dobie - washerman
Punkah - fan
Kamsamah - butler
Kitmutgar - waiter
Tchoki - police station


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