LL-L: "Language contacts" LOWLANDS-L, 20.FEB.2000 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L Administrator]

 ========================================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L * 20.FEB.2000 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
 Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
 Web Site: <http://www.geocities.com/~sassisch/rhahn//lowlands/>
 User's Manual: <http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html>
 =========================================================================
 A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachean, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German), S=Scots, Sh=Shetlandic
 =========================================================================

From: Alfred Brothers [alfredb at erols.com]
Subject: LL-L: "Language contacts" LOWLANDS-L, 19.FEB.2000 (03) [E]

R. F. Hahn wrote:

> Unfortunately, these are not a sizeable language samples.  However, I think
they
> provide some indication of North and Western Germanic overlap, especially in
the
> Southern Jutish text.  Among the ones I found striking in SJ are these:
>
> (2) frequent West-Germanic-type preposing of definite articles rather than
> North-Germanic-type postposing; e.g., _... de de schwin frar_ (cf. Danish _...

> som Svinene åde_) '... that the pigs ate'

Are there _any_ postposed articles? They all seem to be preposed, as in LS.

> (3) _de_ as relative pronoun instead of Skandinavian _som_ (see example under
> (2))

Danish has an alternative form of _som_ (_der_) when it's used as the subject of
a
clause -- unlike Swedish and Norwegian (Dano-Norwegian excluded). However, in
the
example you cite, it's used as the object of the clause; and I don't know
whether
any Danish dialects use _der_ in those cases. In form, it's similar enough to LS

"de" to be transferred. And in proximity to a language having influence strong
enough to have caused the preposed def. article to be more common, I suppose it
could be possible. I notice later in the text, however, that both _som_ and
_der_
appear together (_...som der ha brö nok_) when used as the subject.

> Can any of you identify other characteristics in either text?

I find the word order interesting in "Som hain no ho oll hains päng fertehr,
..." I
would have expected "Som hain no ho fertehr oll hains päng, ...".

It's quite an interesting dialect. I hope someone comes up with more examples.

Alfred Brothers

----------

From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Language contacts

Alfred Brothers wrote:

> Danish has an alternative form of _som_ (_der_) when it's used as the subject
of a
> clause -- unlike Swedish and Norwegian (Dano-Norwegian excluded). However, in
the
> example you cite, it's used as the object of the clause; and I don't know
whether
> any Danish dialects use _der_ in those cases. In form, it's similar enough to
LS
> "de" to be transferred. And in proximity to a language having influence strong

> enough to have caused the preposed def. article to be more common, I suppose
it
> could be possible. I notice later in the text, however, that both _som_ and
_der_
> appear together (_...som der ha brö nok_) when used as the subject.

I agree.  I don't think that _der_ (SJ *_de_?) plays a direct role here, though
it may have worked in concert with LS _de_ (= /dei/).

> I find the word order interesting in "Som hain no ho oll hains päng fertehr,
..." I
> would have expected "Som hain no ho fertehr oll hains päng, ...".

Yes, indeed!  I hadn't noticed that before.  This seems rather un-Scandinavian
and very West Germanic.

There is much talk about the Danish varieties of Germany being syntactically and
idiomatically German-influenced.  While perhaps many of these are more recent
features, I would not be surprised if some of them were "inherited" via Southern
Jutish, i.e., filtered into Danish via SJ and indirectly from Low Saxon (Low
German) rather than from Standard German.

I neglected to mention two striking phonological features of the Low Saxon
dialects of that region:

(1) Onset /s/ (i.e., syllable-initial /s/) tends to be consistently pronounced
as [s] rather than as [z] as in virtually all other dialects of Germany.  This
seems rather Scandinavian.  Is it not also a feature of North Frisian varieties?

(2) /g/ is fricativized in almost all environments, voiced or voiceless
depending on environment and variety.  In most other dialects of Germany, /g/ is
a stop word-initially and in many dialects anywhere in coda position, while
syllable-finally it is fricativized.  Don't the varieties of the far north then
not share this feature with many dialects of the Netherlands?  Could it be
Southern Jutish influence in the north?  I am only aware of /g/ fricativization
syllable-finally in Danish, often developed into [w] or even [v] (e.g.,
_davlönner_ < _daglønner_ 'day-laborer', _dau_ < _dag_ 'day').

Regards,

Reinhard/Ron

==================================END======================================
 You have received this because your account has been subscribed upon
 request. To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l"
 as message text from the same account to
 <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or sign off at
 <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
 =========================================================================
 * Please submit contributions to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>.
 * Contributions will be displayed unedited in digest form.
 * Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
 * Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
   to be sent to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
   <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
 * Please use only Plain Text format, not Rich Text (HTML) or any other
   type of format, in your submissions.
* Please contact the administrator at <sassisch at yahoo.com>, and only if all
   else fails.
 ========================================================================