LL-L: "Language policies" LOWLANDS-L, 23.FEB.2000 (04) [E]
Lowlands-L Administrator
sassisch at yahoo.com
Wed Feb 23 21:14:04 UTC 2000
=======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 23.FEB.2000 (04) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Web Site: <http://www.geocities.com/sassisch/rhahn/lowlands/>
User's Manual: <http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html>
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachean, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
LS=Low Saxon (Low German), S=Scots, Sh=Shetlandic
=======================================================================
From: Colin Wilson [lcwilson at iee.org]
Subject: LL-L: "Language policies" LOWLANDS-L, 23.FEB.2000 (03) [E]
At 08:55 23/02/00 -0800, Reinhard/Ron wrote:
>how can the minority languages of France be "a part of the official language
>that is French"? As though they were French dialects?
Quite. As far as government is concerned even French dialects, or anything
at all diverging from the standard set by l'Academie Francaise, are not
"part of the official language that is French".
Colin Wilson.
************ http://www.btinternet.com/~lcwilson/colin.htm ***********
the graip wis tint, the besom wis duin
Colin Wilson the barra wadna row its lane
writin fae Glesca an sicna soss it nivver wis seen
lik the muckin o Geordie's byre
**********************************************************************
----------
From: Roger P. G. Thijs [roger.thijs at village.uunet.be]
Subject: LL-L: "Language policies" LOWLANDS-L, 23.FEB.2000 (03) [E]
> From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
> Subject: LL-L: "Language policies" LOWLANDS-L, 23.FEB.2000 (03) [E]
> Olivier Engelaere wrote in response to my endeavor to grasp French
language
> policies:
> > I think that _all_ minority languages are ...etc...
Ron, there are a couple of things to say:
1. The French speaking community in France (and till 1935 also in Belgium)
thought in the past that there was only one cultural koiné language, and
eventually a lot of different dialects, from whatever nature, different from
parish to parish, and damned to disappear. If these dialects were Romance of
not, didn't matter very much nor did it change the attitude.
2. Some languages gave some problems though, e.g. Alsatian had German as
koiné, Flemish had Dutch as (written) koiné (cf. the books by Michiel De
Swaen). For these cases there has been a targetted legislation for
reinforcing and monopolising the position of French.
3. There are cultural movements for promoting regional languages. I'm member
of some, and the membership rarely exceeds 50 members. The publicity they
make generally (and unfortunately) largerly exceeds there importance in the
field.
What most of these languages share:
- they have no widely accepted koiné (nor a grammar common for all schools
of the area). (This makes formal recognition difficult, but not impossible,
cf. the varieties of Rheto-Roman in Switserland)
What divides the cultural movements:
- there is the group of languages that are not Romance (Breton, Basque,
Alsatian, Rhine-Franconian, Moselle-Franconian, Flemish) or sufficiantly
different from French (Occitan, Catalan, Corse)
- and there is the group of languages that are considered to be French
dialects (by most); some of these varieties have relatively strong
mouvements (and ... e.g. CD's with songs in the regional language, as well
a books etc.) Olivier is strongly supporting the Picard regional language.
I think the latter group suffers from a double isolation:
. the French do not take them seriously (Picard and Zazi (du metro) are
similar language phenomena for them)
. the Occitans etc. consider them too French for them to be invited to share
a policy for recognition of local "languages".
I guess for Germany similar reflexions may apply, the more Bavarian,
Rhine-Franconian etc. position thesself as regional variaties, Low-Saxon may
become to be considered one of the many regional variants inside Germany.
Sould a Low-Saxon movement rather ally with a Wesphalian, Ripuarian,
Rhine-Franconian, Bavarian movement or rather with a Scots movement?
Regards,
Roger
----------
From: Olivier Engelaere [oengelaere at nordnet.fr]
Subject: LL-L: "Language policies" LOWLANDS-L, 23.FEB.2000 (03) [E]
>I could understand it if, for political reasons, all of these languages,
>including French, were considered "French languages," namely "the
(national)
>languages of France."
That's the way it must be understood. But, I agree with you, it's really not
clearly said... because officialy the French Republic doesn't have any
minority. So, it's a way to say it without say it.
Olivier Engelaere
----------
From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: LL-L: "Language policies" LOWLANDS-L, 23.FEB.2000 (03) [E]
Thanks to Colin, Roger and Olivier for clarifying for me whatever can be
clarified in this case.
I suppose we are talking about a mindset and about premises that I simply can
not tune into. Perhaps I should just stop hoping for some sort of logical
sense to reveal itself in this matter.
Thanks again.
Reinhard/Ron
==================================END===================================
You have received this because your account has been subscribed upon
request. To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l"
as message text from the same account to
<listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or sign off at
<http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
=======================================================================
* Please submit contributions to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>.
* Contributions will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
to be sent to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
<http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
* Please use only Plain Text format, not Rich Text (HTML) or any other
type of format, in your submissions
=======================================================================
More information about the LOWLANDS-L
mailing list