LL-L: "Names" (was "Language politics") LOWLANDS-L, 22.JAN.2000 (01) [E]

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From: Andrew Eagle [K27 at compuserve.com]
Subject: Language politics

Ron wrote

>Are you trying to tell us then that you are *not* a transplanted Native
>American?  ;)  Seriously, that's what an American friend of mine assumed
about
>you and John Feather!  :D

Are names like this not common in all languages. I think the name Eagle
isn't from the name of the bird but from something older that lost its
meaning and became spellt as something with which people were familiar.
Similarly with your own name. No! I won't make jokes about feathered
creatures often found on conflakes packets ;-)

Andy

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Names

Andy wrote:

> Are names like this not common in all languages.

Well, maybe not in *all* but certainly many.  Sure.  It's just funny to me how
people tend to jump to conclusions in supposedly picking "kin."

> I think the name Eagle
> isn't from the name of the bird but from something older that lost its
> meaning and became spellt as something with which people were familiar.

I suppose you can always keep hoping.  ;)  But really, what's wrong with
eagles?  They are one of the most sought-after symbols.  The United States ended
up chosing an eagle as their symbol (as did Germany and countless other
countries) after rejecting the proposal that the (wild) turkey be the national
symbol.

> Similarly with your own name. No! I won't make jokes about feathered
> creatures often found on conflakes packets ;-)

Oh, go ahead then!  Make my day!  Don't you think I'm used to all possible
"fowl" (and "fowler") references?  Unlike myself (who still points out the
derivation "Hahn/Haan < Hagen"), my younger brother Michael has embraced the
feathered creature identity to the degree that he now collects items (e.g.,
cups) with pictures of roosters on them.  If you can't beat them, join them!

Best regards,

Reinhard/Ron

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From: Andrew Eagle [K27 at compuserve.com]
Subject: Language politics

john feather wrote:
Subject: Language politics

Andy wrote:
>>Placenames in the Lowlands are of Pictish, Brythonic (Welsh), Gaelic,
>>Scandinavian, Scots and more recently English origin, many are a mixture
of
>>two or more of these.

>This list omits names derived from the tribe of Dan, who presumably spoke
>Dan-ish. Consider, for example, E-din-burgh. There are places containing
>"dun" or "don" named after (US "for") them all over Scotland and Ireland.
I
>learned this from an American radio evangelist many years ago - that's the
>plain truth. I offer it now as a warning against careless etymology.

Where did this  tribe of Dan originate? Where did they live?
I've never heard of them.
I assume (US "for") is a typo for (US "fort")

As you rightly say Dùn is the Gaelic for a fort, fortress, a castle, a
fortification, a heap. Remeber in previous ages a fort was nothing more
that a rounded hill with a wooden hut and a wooden fence around it.

Gaelic duns are usually followed by a further Gaelic element qualifying
which 'fort' it is. Any examples of these 'tribe of Dan' duns? I wouldn't
accept Edinburgh here.

cf. Old Irish dún, Welsh din, A-S and ON tún, Ger Zaun, Scots Toun, Eng
Town etc.

Andy

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