LL-L: "Language maintenance" LOWLANDS-L, 21.JUL.2000 (07) [E]

Sat Jul 22 00:28:54 UTC 2000

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 21.JUL.2000 (07) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Criostoir O Ciardha [paada_please at yahoo.co.uk]
Subject: LL-L: "Language maintenance" LOWLANDS-L, 21.JUL.2000 (04) [E]

Dear Ron,

I knew full well about the other linguistic minorities
within Germany. However, I used the example of the
Sorbs largely because I was pushed for time and I
didn't wish to break my train of thought. Perhaps the
Lusatians were not the best example - not being
strictly speaking 'Lowland' nor Germanic - but
nontheless they illustrated the point adequately
enough for the purpose I was intending.

However, thank you for pointing out the differences
between Plautdietsch and the rest. I must admit I was
rather hazy on that issue.

Thanks,

Criostoir.

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From: Henry Pijffers [hpijffers at home.nl]
Subject: LL-L: "Language maintenance" LOWLANDS-L, 21.JUL.2000 (04) [E]

John Feather hef skreeven:
>
> >_Schiet_, unlike German _Scheiße_, is totally acceptable in polite company,
> also meaning simply 'dirt', and preposed 'unpleasant ...'  I, who is not
> prone to using offensive language, have used it on LL-L on more than one
> occasion.<
>
> In Swedish there is a further use of "skit- " as an intensifier, eg
> "skitbillig" (very cheap), "skitbra" (very good). I don't know the register
> of this, though I believe the usage is very widespread.
>
> The pronunciation is something like "fwit", or at least mine is.

In Low-Saxon we have a word that would probably be spelled "schier".
It's is used in the same way, to intensify good things.
As in "det is 'ne schiere pries" (that's a nice price).

> There will never be an effective renaissance of
> minority cultures until the obstructionary
> collaborators who form the vast majority of local
> government in minority areas stop thinking about
> consolidating "national" culture and promote local
> culture.
>
I think we should stop waiting on them to acknowledge our rights, and give us
"permission" (what an ugly word to use actually, who the hell are they we have
to
ask them for permission???) We should just take our right to use our language.
And we should promote our culture ourselves. So who will set up a tv station
in
their mother tongue? Who will do the newspaper? Who a radio station?
And in general: anything language related. If we can do that, then we have a
renaissance.
"They" don't even have to like it, let alone support it or make an effort for
it.
Especially in the case of Low-Saxon this might be very well possible, because
if I
make a quick count, there might even be more native Low-Saxon speakers than
native Dutch speakers (!). So if there is Dutch media, Low-Saxon media could
be realised.
My point is, we have to stop waiting on them to take action, and take action
ourselves.
Nobody will work for free in your graden, you shall have to work it yourself.
It's your garden, not theirs...

> Was anybody here given the opportunity to learn their
> language at school? What are your experiences?
>
Nope, my little Saxon language is actually just a dialect of the great Dutch,
why bother...

regards,
Henry

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Language maintenance

Dear Lowlanders,

Henry wrote:

> > Was anybody here given the opportunity to learn their
> > language at school? What are your experiences?
> >
> Nope, my little Saxon language is actually just a dialect of the great > Dutch, why bother...

In the German state of Hamborg/Hamburg, in the 1960s and maybe a bit before
that, Low Saxon (Low German) was included in some elementary schools'
_Heimatkunde_ curricula (a mishmash of regional geography, history and
culture).  It wasn't anything like language studies.  It was limited to
reading short literary pieces, reciting poems and singing ditties, all about
_Heimat_, heather, herring and the like.  I'm sure similar things were done in
other North German states and regions also.  Since the official line then was
that we were merely dealing with "dialect" there was no need to do any more
than that, and similar things may have been done in other parts of the country
with German dialects that have a body of "folk literature."

As soon as the big budget ax went into action, this sort of stuff was the
first to go bye-bye.  I'm sure that those who were sad about it were in the
minority, given the prevailing opinion that German and English are more
important, i.e., are keys to economic success.  Besides, people were becoming
more mobile, and there were kids who's cultural heritage was not Northern or
even German, and many people probably thought they shouldn't be bothered with
those "Platt" things.  I've heard several people who went through school later
express their belated regrets that they didn't even get the little bit that
had been provided earlier.

Apparently there is a bit of a five minutes before midnight revival underway
now, more in some regions and communities than in others.  Now you can even
study the language in evening classes at some community colleges.  In Eastern
Friesland (the stallward region that it is) they have introduced a few
bilingual (German-LS) kindergarten programs, some apparently with astounding
success, resulting in the rekindling of the language in the children's homes.
I don't know if the language has been reintroduced into elementary schools.
Does anyone else know?  If it has, I hope it won't be the lame stuff we were
given back in the bad old days.

Best regards,

Reinhard/Ron

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From: john feather [johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk]
Subject: Language maintenance

Criostoir wrote:

>Similarly, the past experience with English football hooligans has been to
refer to them as "British football hooligans" - especially when they stab
somebody, riot or smash up the continent. <

This seems to me to be another of his little fantasies. My memory is that
the media used the term "English" consistently during the last little
trouble. But in any case, I though there weren't any "football hooligans" -
just members of the oppressed British working class engaged in healthy
exercise.

John Feather johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk

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