LL-L: "Symbols" LOWLANDS-L, 30.JUL.2000 (03) [E]
Lowlands-L
sassisch at yahoo.com
Mon Jul 31 00:07:41 UTC 2000
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L O W L A N D S - L * 30.JUL.2000 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Thomas [t.mcrae at uq.net.au]
Subject: LL-L: "Symbols" LOWLANDS-L, 29.JUL.2000 (01) [E]
> From: Lowlands-L <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: LL-L: "Symbols" LOWLANDS-L, 29.JUL.2000 (01) [E]
>
> Did the "svastika" ever have some kind of symbol value in the lowlands,
> before it became the symbol of the NSDAP in Germany?
In certain esoteric circles it has been used symbolically for several
ceturies, known as The Filfeit Cross and there are no political
significations. Outside the Lowlands I have encountered it in the Ashanti
Region of Ghana where it is an ancient traditional symbol and I understand
that at least one Amerindian tribe regards it as a symbol of the sun.
Regards
Tom
Tom Mc Rae
Brisbane Australia
"Oh wid some power the Giftie gie us
Tae see oorselves as ithers see us"
Robert Burns--
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From: Antero Helasvuo [antero.helasvuo at dlc.fi]
Subject: LL-L: "Symbols" LOWLANDS-L, 29.JUL.2000 (01) [E]
At 02:49 30.07.00, you wrote:
>From: Roger Thijs [roger.thijs at village.uunet.be]
>Subject: symbols
>
>Did the "svastika" ever have some kind of symbol value in the lowlands,
>before it became the symbol of the NSDAP in Germany?
>
>I'm asking this, since I found the symbol, as "logo" of a publisher, on
the
>
>cover on a book, I bought second hand:
>
>De Haven van Antwerpen en haar Werking,
>door J. Coopman adjunct-havenkapitein,
>Met Woord Vooraf door Fritz Franken
>43 Lichtteekeningen van J.E. Wygaerts
>en 28 Penteekeningen van
>Jos. Van Eeckhoven
>*** svastika sign ***
>(publisher(s?):)
>De Nederlandsche Boekhandel, Antwerpen
>(and?:)
>Uitgave "__Svastika__", Antwerpen, De Bomstraat, 38
>
>The book is not dated.
>The "inleiding" is signed J.C., Antwerpen, __October 1926__
>
>At the time I can hardly imagine Hitler had influence in Antwerp
>(especially
>at the level of the direction of the harbor).
>B.t.w. the "Nederlandsche Boekhandel" still exists, it moved from Antwerp
>to
>the suburb Kapellen about a year ago (part of their books are published as
>by: "Uitgeverij Pelckmans").
>
>"Lichtteekeningen" are clearly photographs. Th book dates from a period,
>people over here wrote in a "hyper"-Dutch, avoiding any French vocabulary.
>
>Regards,
>
>Roger
The swastika is actually a very old symbol, that has been used in various
cultures from time immemorial. In India for instance it was the sign of god
Tshakrawart, "the lord of the universe", symbolizing the eternal movement.
In ancient Greece it was used as the symbol of the Sun, the wheel of
Helios' chariot. The swastika-symbol can be found among the ancient
inhabitants of the Americas as well. It is possible that he Germanic
peoples brought it from Asia (India and China) to Europe, but since the
form is very "logical" it may have been conceived independently in various
parts of the world. The Random House Webster's Unabridged Dictionary gives
this ethymology: [1850–55; < Skt svastika, equiv. to su- good, well (c. Gk
eu- EU-) + as- be (see IS) + -ti- abstract n. suffix + -ka secondary n.
suffix]. Coincidentally the swastika was the sign of the Finnish air force
from 1918 to 1945 having thus absolutely nothing to do with nazism,
although Finland was allied with Germany in World War 2 against Soviet
Union. It is very sad that the Nazis brought this beautiful sign in
disgrace, so nobody but the neo-nazis dare to use it even as an ornament.
The good sign has become the bad sign (except for the nazis of course).
This taboo really deserves to be broken.
Antero Helasvuo
Pitäjänmäentie 35 D 32
00370 HELSINKI
Finland
Tel (fax on demand) + 358 9 555396
antero.helasvuo at dlc.fi
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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Symbols
Roger, Lowlanders,
The swastika is a very ancient and widespread symbol, as others have
already mentioned. I don't know if it is generally accepted, but there is
the theory that it symbolized a sun wheel. In the Indo-European tradition,
it is a symbol of good fortune or well-being (which is also what the
Sanskrit name basically means, something like "wellness"). From India it
spread to Eastern and Central Asia with Buddhism, hence this symbol being
found in China, Korea, Japan, Mongolia and other countries. Some Buddhist
tradition has it that the Buddha's footprints were in the shape of
swastikas.
It is widely believed that the use of the swastika in Asia and Europe is a
matter not of coincidence but of connection, since use of the symbol has
been attested in a sort of continuum between India and Europe, one of the
theories being that it was passed on from east to west, reaching
Northwestern Europe sometime in the first century B.C.E. It used to be
believed that this was the extent of the spread, until Westerners
discovered it in other regions of the world. While, in theory, its use in
Africa could be explained as connected with its Eurasian use, its discovery
in pre-Columbian American cultures could not (unless you subscribe to some
fringe theory).
Use of the swastika was very fashionable in the West especially in the
early part of the 20th century, until it was more or less usurped by the
Nazis, probably taking off from its use by the German Wandervogel
organization and fed by pseudo-scientific ideas of it being *the* Gemanic
symbol (the _Hakenkeuz_ "hooked cross"). Before that it was adopted as a
symbol not only by fascists but also by numerous other groups, such as the
Girls Club of America whose newsletter was even called _The Swastika_ (I
vaguely remember).
There is now an international organization whose aim it is to restore the
acceptance of the swastika as a positive symbol, i.e., to rehabilitate its
reputation.
Use of the swastika has been prohibited in post-war Germany, except within
contexts such as historical displays. (I don't know how its use among
Buddhists is being handled.) I am probably not the only post-war
generation German who feels torn about this. On the intellectual and
political levels, such a prohibition, like the prohibition of certain
political parties and the infamous _Berufsverbot_ (i.e., exclusion of
members of "extremist" organizations from state employment), seem
thoroughly undemocratic to me, violating basic human rights, in fact.
Also, banning of the symbol may be argued to be an act of ceding some sort
of power to the fascists to which they ought not be entitled. On an
emotional level, however, many of us feel "protected" by this prohibition,
not only because we want that symbol and what it is understood as standing
for gone from our lives, don't want to be associated with it in any way and
feel offended by its clandestine use (usually in the form of graffiti) by
far right-wing groups. I have witnessed expressions of sheer terror by
victims of Nazi atrocities at the mere sight of the swastika. I certainly
would not like them to have to go through that type of anguish, and we, who
could be argued to be indirect victims of that era, tend to be able to
relate to it very well. Thus, my prediction is that it will take many, many
generations before the swastika regains its wholly positive meaning in the
West, if it ever will.
Best regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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