LL-L: "Nordic connections" (was "Language names") LOWLANDS-L, 09.JUN.2000 (03) [E/German]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 09.JUN.2000 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: john feather [johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk]
Subject: Language names

Götz Sachse wrote:

>So heißt z.B. "ein Mann" auf Hochdänisch "manden" mit angehängtem Artikel,
>aber auf Süderjütisch "æ mand".

I read Danish by pretending it's Swedish written by a dyslexic Swede (you
can't get much posher than that) so perhaps I'm missing something, but as
far as I know Dan. "manden" means "the man" (or collectively "man") while
"en mand" means "a man".

John Feather johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Nordic connections

John wrote (above):

> but as
> far as I know Dan. "manden" means "the man" (or collectively "man") while
> "en mand" means "a man".

My Danish is only just passable, but I'm pretty sure that Götz was mistaken
(and I was mistaken in not catching it earlier) when he said:

>So heißt z.B. "ein Mann" auf Hochdänisch "manden" mit angehängtem Artikel,
>aber auf Süderjütisch "æ mand".

I think what he wanted to say or ought to have said is this:

"So heißt z.B. "der Mann" auf Hochdänisch "manden" mit angehängtem Artikel,
aber auf Süderjütisch "æ mand"."

("Thus, 'the man' is _manden_ in Standard Danish with a postposed article, but
it's _æ mand_ in South Jutish.")

In other words, Scandinavian normally postposes the definite article in this
fashion (Standard Danish):

Indefinite: en mand 'a man', et hus 'a house'
Definite: manden 'the man', huset 'the house'

In South Jutish this would be (I believe):

Indefinite: en ~ æn mand 'a man', e(t) ~ æ(t) hus 'a house'
Definite: e ~ æ mand 'the man', e ~ æ hus 'the house'

(Please correct me if I'm wrong.)

Cf. Low Saxon/Low German:

Indefinite: (ee)n Mann 'a man', (ee)n Huus hus 'a house'
Definite: de(i) Mann 'the man', dat Huus 'the house'

Sometime ago we talked about South Jutish, and I supplied a sample.  From the
sample of the South Jutish and Low Saxon of Tolk (19.FEB.2000 (03)):

SJ: ... den schikkede hain te markens, te a war *ä schwin*
LS: ... un de schickt'em op sien feld *de swine* to höiden
(... and he sent him into his fields to feed *the pigs*)

The Institut for Jysk Sprog- og Kulturforskning (Institute for Jutish Language
and Culture Research) has a terrific website (http://www.sb.aau.dk/dlh/) with
dialect samples from various parts of Jutland, including Southern Jutland.

Starup dialect (http://www.sb.aau.dk/dlh/dialekt/09.html) from between Kolding
and Vejle:
*æ daw'* fö'r vi slaw'tet, da blöw mi bro:r å mæ sænj hæn' i *æ hæj'n* ...
Standard Danish: *dagen* før vi slagtede, da blev min broder og jeg sendt hen
i *hegnet* ...
(On *the day* before we butchered, my brother and I would be sent over into
*the grove* ...)

Højer dialect (http://www.sb.aau.dk/dlh/dialekt/10.html), from west of Tønder
(Tondern):
... de lecher synjen få *æ grænjs* idaw'
Standard Danish: ... det ligger syd for *grænsen* i dag
(... these days it's situated south of *the border*)

Varnæs dialect (http://www.sb.aau.dk/dlh/dialekt/11.html) from between Åbenrå
(Apenrade) and Sønderborg (Sonderburg):
Dænj haj stanjen i *e kjoljer*
Standard Danish: Den havde stået i *kælderen*
(It had stood in *the cellar*)

[Note also _haj stanjen_ 'had stood' with /...en/ like Low Saxon _harr
stunnen_, as opposed to Standard Danish _havde stået_.]

By the way, any of you who are familiar with the sounds of Low Saxon (Low
German) and Standard Danish (or even those of you who are not) ought to listen
to these dialect samples if your systems can read RealAudio files.  To my
ears, the samples from Højer and Varnæs sound remarkably Low Saxon, especially
the one from Varnæs.  If I don't actually try to understand the words I could
swear that I'm listening to a Low Saxon dialect.  (Some of the dialects of
Northern Jutland, e.g., that of Skæve west of Frederikshavn, Sample 1, are
somewhat similar in this regard.)

Best regards,

Reinhard/Ron

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