LL-L: "Literature" LOWLANDS-L, 25.NOV.2000 (02) [E/German]

Sat Nov 25 20:26:57 UTC 2000

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  L O W L A N D S - L * 25.NOV.2000 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: y-waki at pf6.so-net.ne.jp
Subject: LL-L "Literature" LOWLANDS-L, 20 NOV.2000 (04) [E]

Hellow,
Anja Meyfarth wrote that "De Fischer un sien Fr" and "Machandrdelboom" are
collected Philip Otto Runge, not by Grimms. It is correct, and they are
from Pommern. But, I have read that they were originally written in the
dialect in Pommern. Brother Grimms write tis in the 3rd volume
"Anmerkungen zu den einzelnen Maerchen":

"Dieses Maerchen hat Runge zu Hamburg in der pommerischen Mundart trefflich
aufgeschrieben, und wir erhielten es schon imJahr 1809 von Arim
freundschaftlich mitgetheilt. ...". They received "Der Maschendelboom" also
through Arnim. There are several Maerchen written in "Plattdeutsch". I gues
most of them are in dialects of Westfalen.

Yasuji Waki
E-mail: y-waki at pf6.so-net.ne.jp
Addr: 1-2-6-104, Midoridai, Funabshi,
Chiba Pref. Japan

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Literature

Yasuji Waki wrote above that "Von dem Fischer un syne Fru" and "Von dem
Machandelboom" had been originally recorded by Runge and that they are in
Pomeranian dialect(s) of Low Saxon (Low German).  Thanks for the
information.

Who was this "Arnim"?  Who gave him the right to donate the tales to the
collections of the Grimm brothers?  And where was Runge himself at that
time?

"Einer für den dies alles zutrifft, ist der Romantiker Philipp Otto Runge,
geboren 1777 in Wolgast, gestorben 1810 in Hamburg: ein großer Poet, ein
bedeutender Maler, eine grandiose Doppelbegabung. Er, dessen dichterische
Formgebung die Brüder Grimm zum Vorbild erklärten, entnahm seine beiden
Märchen _Von dem Fischer un syne Fru_ und _Von dem Machandelboom_ den "noch
umlaufenden Volksdichtungen", aber so, wie wir die Märchen kennen, sind sie
Runges eigenständiges Werk. Als Volksmärchen ist die Geschichte vom Fischer
und seiner Frau nicht an einem Ort entstanden. Heinz Rölleke hat in seinem
Bericht mit dem Titel _Der wahre Butt_, erschienen 1978, allein elf
verschiedene Fassungen zusammengetragen. Danach wurde das Butt-Märchen
zwischen 1806 und 1969 in Pommern, Holstein, Hessen, im Märkischen, im
Schwäbischen, in Frankreich und Spanien, sogar im ostfinnischen
Tscheremissen und bei den südsibirischen Türken erzählt und aufgezeichnet."

(Konrad Reich, _Das große plattdeutsche Bilderbuch_, Hamburg: Hoffmann &
Campe, 1986, p. 210)

According to this, "Von dem Fischer un syne Fru," as we know it, was
Runge's own rendition of a folktale he had heard in his native Pomerania.

In the case of oral literature of Mekelnborg/Mecklenburg, Pomerania,
Mercia, Prussia, and the German-speaking areas of the present and former
eastern parts of Germany, we must always consider the possibility of West
Slavic origin, since the cultures of those parts tend to have West Slavic
substrates.  This may be well warranted for instance in the case of the
water nix (_German _Wassermann_) figure, which is prominently featured in
West Slavic folklore (Sorbian/Lusatian _wodny mu{z^}_).

However, according to the German text above, in the case of "Von dem
Fischer un syne Fru" we seem to be dealing with an ancient tale that has
been spread throughout large parts of Eurasia, and we may never be able to
determine its place of origin.

I am wondering about the language of "Von dem Fischer un syne Fru," because
it does not seem particularly Pomeranian to me, except for some words such
as _äwel_ for 'awful', 'horrible' (_"Ach," säd de Fru, "dat is doch äwel,
hyr man jümmer in'n Pißputt to waanen, dat stinkt un is so eeklig_ '"Argh,"
the wife said, "it's horrible to live here in the chamber pot. It stinks so
disgusting"'), its Northern Low Saxon cognate being _övel_ 'evil' and its
Northern Low Saxon equivalent being _leeg_, _gresig_, etc.  In "Von dem
Machandelboom" we get a few instances like _doräwer_ 'about that' where
Northern Low Saxon has _daaröver_ or _doröver_.  Unrounding in certain
words is fairly wide-spread in Eastern Low Saxon dialects.  However, as
Stefan Israel has mentioned, for a while it was also fashionable in
"higher" sociolects in other regions as well.  I am wondering how truly
Pomeranian the texts really are, if they are perhaps somewhat "cleaned up."

Any explanations and comments would be appreciated.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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