LL-L: "Language planning" LOWLANDS-L, 09.OCT.2000 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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  L O W L A N D S - L * 09.OCT.2000 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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  A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachean, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
  LS=Low Saxon (Low German), S=Scots, Sh=Shetlandic, Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: Nigel Smith [lists at intexta.com]
Subject: LL-L: "Morphophonology" (was "Phonology") LOWLANDS-L, 08.OCT.2000
(04) [E]

Marco Evenhuis [evenhuis at zeelandnet.nl] wrote:

> one very important issue in the discussion: the attitude of speakers
> and (perhaps even more important) people in the same region that speak
the
> standard language towards translation of formal texts in the language. I
> think these translations are useless unless both speakers and
non-speakers
> are convinced these texts/roadsigns/etc. are necessary.

Well, my experience of people who have been brought up within a
predominantly monolingual culture, speaking a language of power, is that
they simply don't want to know. Here in Wales you see letters in the
Western
Mail (Wales' only national daily) almost every week complaining about the
high-profile status of Welsh, Welsh as a prerequisite for certain jobs, and

the 'unnecessary' requirement to have public notices in both English and
Welsh -- 'unneccessary' "because everyone in Wales speaks English". The
same
attitude pertains towards those who are foolish enough to waste their time
learning Welsh -- "why would you want to learn that? Welsh is dead."

Why is this relevant to the "smaller" Lowlands languages? Because Welsh is
a
"minority" language within a Lowlands country and so may provide some index

of how that country (the UK) may treat other "smaller" languages, in
particular Scots, given the right conditions. My point is that the
attitudes
mentioned above exist even though Welsh is probably one of the most
successful of the "minority" languages in Europe today. For those on the
list who don't know, the Welsh Language Act of 1993 states that everyone in

Wales should be able to conduct any public business in either Welsh or
English; all (with a few odd exceptions) road signage is bilingual;
education through the medium of Welsh is highly developed at nursery,
primary and secondary levels, with a variety of options ranging from
compulsory Welsh as a second language, to Welsh as the language of
instruction in all or almost all subjects. [I should add that many people
in
Wales are unhappy with the state of affairs as described here: for some it
goes much too far, for others not nearly far enough; but in my mind it is
more favourable to the survival of Welsh than the status quo in many other
countries with "minority" languages.]

Given all this and the prevailing attitudes of many monolingual English
speakers, I am not at all sure that [quote Marco] "both speakers and
non-speakers are convinced these texts/roadsigns/etc. are necessary". Does
this mean that bilingual/multilingual signage is valueless?

I remember in the early 1990s being astounded at the attitude of some Welsh

colleagues, university lecturers. All were Welsh speakers, members of
Cymdeithas yr Iaith Gymraeg, and Plaid Cymru supporters. I mentioned in
passing how my mother's native tongue, Scots [which to my great shame I
cannot speak or write properly], had had a boost as Edinburgh University
had
just started teaching it as a subject [I thought at the time that it was a
separate degree course, but now I suspect it was an option in a degree
course in English (!) ]. To my amazement, my colleagues, from whom I had
expected expressions of interest and support for this [to my naive mind]
important development, were in fits of laughter at the thought, and spent
the rest of the evening making jokes about it. If this is the sort of
attitude among speakers of another "minoritised" language, I think we have
a
long way to go before we can start using the argument that both speakers
AND
NON-SPEAKERS have to be convinced that bilingual signage is necessary.

Sandy Fleming wrote:
> One problem in Scots these days is that enthusiasts
> tackling high-register Scots start to coin new words and
> phrases long before they've exhausted all precedents -
> the real problem being that they can't exhaust all
> precedents because they don't know much of the language
> beyond their own everyday register.

This fits in with my own gut instinct about how such translations are made.

The idea of going back to precedent is an interesting one, and would no
doubt help to solve the problem of translations being too influenced by the

language of power. [Although Sandy doesn't say so explicitly, I interpret
him as meaning that such formulations, although based on older forms of
Scots (etc.), would, if carefully handled, maintain the authenticity of
Scots syntax, vocabulary, etc. for a native speaker.]

Sandy also wrote:
> it suggests a whole principle
> of preferred official usage involving the selection of words
> that are mostly invariant across dialects.

An interesting point. To my knowledge, some localised forms are used in
signage in Wales ['man pasio' and 'lle pasio' for 'passing place' come to
mind], though signs are predominantly pan-Welsh.

Sandy> Whether a language should take the telegraphic or full
> approach to signage perhaps depends on the perceived advantages
> and disadvantages, but it may be that the telegraphic approach
> is a sign of maturity - it means that people are used to
> reading newspapers and writing small ads and other brief,
> urgent communications in the language.

But surely on a roadsign, particularly a bi- or tri-lingual one, brevity is

important? One of the arguments against bilingual signs in Wales was that
drivers would take longer to identify which was 'their' language and read
the sign, and thus might cause an accident. [Of course, the signs we now
have do nothing to help avoid that: the same typeface and colouring are
used
for each language, no doubt to save cost -- the situation in Ireland seems
much better, with a clearly distinct typeface used for the Irish on
bilingual signs.]

Nigel Smith
lists at intexta.com

----------

From: john feather [johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk]
Subject: Language planning

Sandy's reference to telegraphic language reminded me of the US "tudor" in
small ads for cars. When I finally understood it I could not understand why
it was used in ads for VW Beetles (why save one word by compression when
you
could save two by omission?).

I have an interesting Duden monograph entitled "Zur Syntax des
Wetterberichtes und des Telegrammes". Do all Lowland languages use a
special
syntax for (TV) weather forecasts? A common occurrence in Britain is the
loss of the finite verb, replaced by the present  participle or omitted
entirely.

John Feather johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk

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