LL-L: "Etymology" LOWLANDS-L, 11.SEP.2000 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

 ======================================================================
  L O W L A N D S - L * 11.SEP.2000 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
  Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
  Web Site: <http://www.geocities.com/sassisch/rhahn/lowlands/>
  User's Manual: <http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html>
  Archive: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html>
  =======================================================================
  A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachean, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
  LS=Low Saxon (Low German), S=Scots, Sh=Shetlandic
  =======================================================================

From: Henry Pijffers [hpijffers at home.nl]
Subject: LL-L: "Etymology" LOWLANDS-L, 10.SEP.2000 (04) [E]

John Feather wrote:
>
>The s(z)/r switch in verbs is preserved in English (only?) in the word
>"forlorn". I suggest that in its ordinary use the word has quite lost the
>specific meaning of "lost" and means something like "sad" or "wretched".
>
>The expression "forlorn hope" comes, according to Chambers English
>Dictionary, from Dutch "verloren hoop", where "hoop" doesn't mean "hope"
>but "troop of soldiers".
>
In Low-Saxon we have "ferlör(e)n", which means "lost" ("verloren" in
Dutch).
Isn't that the same, and doesn't that mean it's not just English that
preserved it?

regards,
Henry

----------

From: Henry Pijffers [hpijffers at home.nl]
Subject: Ethymology (?)

Hi list,

A friend of mine recently noticed that I use the Low-Saxon word "nölen"
(zeuren (D),
to nag/to complain (E)) a lot when I speak Dutch. This started me
wondering. Is it
known and used in other Low-Saxon variants than just mine (Twentsch), and
does
it have cognates in other lowlands languages? As far as I know, it's not
known in
Dutch, because nobody understands it when I use it, people usually have to
laugh
(understandably).

grooten,
Henry

----------

From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Etymology

Henry,

The verb _nölen_ [nø:ln] is used in the Low Saxon (Low German) dialects in
Northern Germany as well.  A dialectal variant is _nödeln_ [nø:dln].  the
verb has a whole range of meanings, including the ones you gave above: 'to
hesitate', 'to dawdle', 'to drag oneself along', 'to act slowly and
grudgingly', 'to be grumpy', 'to complain', 'to nag', 'to nit-pick', 'to
whine' (American), 'to whinge' (Australian), etc.  The adjective/adverb
_nölig_ ['nø:lIC] means things like 'dawdling', 'slowly and grudgingly',
sometimes 'dissatisfied', 'grumpy', 'nagging', 'complaining', etc.
Especially the verb is sometimes used in Missingsch (i.e., Northern German
dialects on Low Saxon substrates) as well; e.g., _Du muss aba auch in eine
Tour nööln, nä?_ 'You've just got to dawdle/whine all the time, don't
you?'  So, North Germans (at least older ones) tend to understand it (at
least vaguely), even if they do not know Low Saxon (Low German) themselves.

I have no idea about the orgin.

Might it have any connection with German _nörgeln_ 'to nit-pick', 'to
complain about this and that' whose use has only been attested since the
17th century?

However, I know that _nölen_ has a relative in Danish: _at nøle_ 'to
hesitate', 'to dawdle', _nølen_ 'hesitation', _nøleri_ 'continuous
hesitation/dawdling', _nølevorn_ 'slow', 'dragging'.  It is pretty much the
same in Dano-Norwegian (Bokmål), as far as I know.  I am not aware of a
cognate in Neo-Norwegian (Nynorsk), Swedish, Islandic and Faeroese and am
thus inclined to assume that we are dealing with a Low Saxon loanword in
Danish and in extension in Dano-Norwegian.  Or is it?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

==================================END===================================
  You have received this because your account has been subscribed upon
  request. To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l"
  as message text from the same account to
  <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or sign off at
  <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
  =======================================================================
  * Please submit contributions to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>.
  * Contributions will be displayed unedited in digest form.
  * Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
  * Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
    to be sent to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
    <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
  * Please use only Plain Text format, not Rich Text (HTML) or any other
    type of format, in your submissions
  =====================================================================