LL-L: "Numbers" LOWLANDS-L, 20.AUG.2001 (02) [A/E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 20.AUG.2001 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachian, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
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From: UB82DN at aol.com
Subject: LL-L: "Numbers" LOWLANDS-L, 19.AUG.2001 (03) [E/LS]

Liewe Laaglanders,

Dis "tagtig" in Afrikaans, of ek dit rigtig herinner.

The definitive treatise on numbers in Indo-European is probably the one by
Otto Szemerenyi. Remnants of a base-20 system seem to occur in a number of
branches.

Cheers,
Joe Stromberg

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From: Henry Pijffers <henry.pijffers at saxnot.com>
Subject: LL-L: "Numbers" LOWLANDS-L, 19.AUG.2001 (01) [E]

Randy Elzinga wrote (on counting):
>
>Does anyone know if similar irregularities existed in Old French or in any
older forms
>of other modern Germanic languages, Lowlands or Otherwise (Old Frisian,
Old
>Saxon, Old Norse, etc.)?
>
I don't know about Old Saxon, but what I do know is that my grandfather
used to
count money in 60's. He'd often say something like "twaalf stuyver", which
means
twelve coins of 5 cents, which is 60 cents.

regards,
Henry Pijffers

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From: Ole Stig Andersen <osa at olestig.dk>
Subject: Numbers

Re: 20-based Number Systems

I think that the Danish counting system might be more transparent with a
direct translation:
50 = halv-tred-s(ind-s-tyve) = half-third-t(imes-of-twenty)
60 = tre-s(ind-s-tyve) = three-t(imes-of-twenty)
70 = halv-fjerd-s(ind-s-tyve) = half-fourth-t(imes-of-twenty)
80 = fir-s(ind-s-tyve) = four-t(imes-of-twenty)
90 = halv-fem-s(ind-s-tyve) = half-fifth-t(imes-of-twenty)

In cardinal numbers the part in parenthesis is almost always omitted. The
full forms are very rarely spoken nor written, giving them an archaic,
pompous feel. But in the ordinal numbers the full forms reappear
obligatorily, yielding
50 = halvtreds, 50th = halvtredsindstyvende
60 = tres, 60th = tresindstyvende
etc.

The awkwardness of these ordinal forms can not be reduced by truncation,
only by reformulation:
halvtredsindstyvende -> nummer halvtreds,
and this anglicism (?) is becoming very widespread.

Only the initial consonant of the word for "times of" = "sinds" is
realized.
"Sinds" is genitive of "sinde" and both are obsolete - the modern Danish
equivalent is "gange", genitive "ganges" - and occur only in numbers and in

fossilized compound expressions like "nogensinde" = "ever".

The "logic" of the system is NOT transparent nor generally known to native
speakers. This, together with the fact that _d_ is silent in the cluster
_ds_, creates very widespread spelling errors like
halvtres (should be halvtreds (50))
treds, (should be tres (60)).

A Scandinavist language reform movement tried to get the 20-based forms
replaced by 10-based like Norwegian and Swedish have. With absolutely no
success.

10-based forms are only used in inter-Scandinavian communication and money
documents like cheques. They are:
femti, seksti, syvti, otteti, niti


A large number of Greetings

Ole Stig Andersen
(http://www.olestig.dk/scotland)

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