LL-L: "Etymology" LOWLANDS-L, 27.AUG.2001 (01) [D/E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L * 27.AUG.2001 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
 Web Site: <http://www.geocities.com/sassisch/rhahn/lowlands/>
 Rules: <http://www.geocities.com/sassisch/rhahn/lowlands/rules.html>
 Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
 Server Manual: <http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html>
 Archive: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html>
=======================================================================
 A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachian, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German), S=Scots, Sh=Shetlandic, Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
=======================================================================

From: "Henno Brandsma" <henno_brandsma at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L: "Etymology" LOWLANDS-L, 25.AUG.2001 (02) [D/E]

> > Al onder de weverkens hun getouw,
>
>I take it _getouw_ refers to the weaver's loom.  Some Northern Low Saxon
>dialects of Germany have _Tau_ [t`a%U] for 'loom', assumedly a cognate and

>assumedly derived from *_getau_ < *_getouwe_, judging by the
>Flemish/Brabantish word.  (Northern Low Saxon dropped the prefix _ge-_
from
>past participle forms (e.g., _gegaan_ > _gaan_ 'gone') and spread this
rule
>to even affect nouns, more or less depending on the dialect (e.g.,
>_geboort_ > _boort_ 'birth').)

The same applies to Frisian varieties as well. Cf "berte" in WF ('birth').
I
would use 'weverstou' for _getouw_, or "weeftou".
Also _tou_ is used for rope as well.

>What is the origin of this _getouw_ and _Tau_ in reference to a weaving
>loom?  Is it derived from Dutch _touw_ and Low Saxon (Low German) _Tau_
>'rope', _getouw_ meaning something like "weaver's rigging"?
>
>_Tau_ 'rope' (which has also been borrowed into German) comes from Middle
>Low Saxon _touwe_, and I assume Middle Dutch also had _touwe_.  I had
>always assumed that it was related to a verb meaning 'to pull', 'to tow',
>but according to the _Herkunftsduden_ it is related to the Middle Low
Saxon
>verb _touwen_ (Middle (High) German _zouwen_) 'to rig up', 'to set up',
'to
>put together' and 'to make', related to Gothic _taujan_ 'to make', 'to
do'.
>
>Any other insights or suggestions?

As to this latter verb: WF has _tôgje_ = to pull, to tow.
This has an interesting _w_ <-> _g_ change, which is seen more in WF:
cf. _nôge_ and Dutch _naaf_ (through the centre of a wheel, I think
_hub_ is the English word (?)). _nôge_ must have derived from *nowa,
I think _nouwe_ still occurs in some WF dialects.
So _tôgje_ is presumably related to the *touwen verb. _je_ is just the
verbal ending, of course, derived from Old Germanic *-ôjan.

>Regards,
>Reinhard/Ron

Henno Brandsma

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Henno,

> I
> would use 'weverstou' for _getouw_, or "weeftou".
> Also _tou_ is used for rope as well.

Same as in some Low Saxon (Low German) dialects of Germany: _Weevtau_
("weaving _tau_") or _Wevertau_ ("weaver's _tau_") '(weaving) loom', and
_Tau_ 'rope'.

> As to this latter verb: WF has _tôgje_ = to pull, to tow.
> This has an interesting _w_ <-> _g_ change, which is seen more in WF:
> cf. _nôge_ and Dutch _naaf_ (through the centre of a wheel, I think
> _hub_ is the English word (?)).

This is what I used to think too, but apparently comes from a verb that
means 'to make' or 'to manufacture'.  As I said:

> _Tau_ 'rope' (which has also been borrowed into German) comes from Middle

> Low Saxon _touwe_, and I assume Middle Dutch also had _touwe_.  I had
> always assumed that it was related to a verb meaning 'to pull', 'to tow',

> but according to the _Herkunftsduden_ it is related to the Middle Low
Saxon
> verb _touwen_ (Middle (High) German _zouwen_) 'to rig up', 'to set up',
'to
> put together' and 'to make', related to Gothic _taujan_ 'to make', 'to
do'.

And Roger:

> Touwen ww, Eén in oorsprong met tooien;
> .. in de vormen met lettergreepscheiding tau-j- ontstond tooi-...
> mnl touwen, tooyen, toyen "gereed maken, maken, looien"...
> got taujan "maken, doen, bewerken"...
> ... runish...  tawidho "ik maakte"
> ... ags tâwian "bewerken, behandelen"

But what you said about g <> w still applies:
English _togian_ (/tog-/) > _to tow_ (= 'to pull'), 'to tug'
Cf. Modern Low Saxon for 'to pull' (besides _trecken_), and disregard the
<h> in the silly German-based spelling: _teh(e)n_ [t`E%In] /tei-n/, e.g.,
_ik toog'_ [... t`o%UG] ~ _ik töög'_ [... t`9%IG] 'I pulled'.

As for the English and Scots word _tow_, as quoted by me:

> Knowing next to nothing about weaving, I did not realize that English,
too,
> has the related word _tow_ "coarse and broken part of flax or hemp
prepared
> for spinning; loose bunch of rayon etc. strands;" ... "ME, f. MLG _touw_,

> f. OS _tou_, rel. to ON _tó_ wool f. *_taw-_" ... (The Concise Oxford
> Dictionary) -- thus, a Middle Low Saxon (Low German) loan.

According to the Oxford Dictionary, two other English words are related to
this “tow”:

(1) TAW 'to make hide into leather without the use of tannin' - Old English
_tawian_ (< /taw-/), this one apparently being native, as opposed to "tow"
< Middle Low Saxon (Low German) _touw(e)_, but with Middle Dutch and Middle
Low Saxon _touwen_ (< /tou(w)-/) as its cognate

(2) TOOL 'mechanical implement' - Old English _tôl_, cf. Old Norse _tól_
(pl.) < Germanic *_tow-lam_

So, this "tow" and the above definitely have the idea of "making" or
"producing" in common, while "tow" in the sense of "pull" has a separate
origin.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

==================================END===================================
 You have received this because your account has been subscribed upon
 request. To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l"
 as message text from the same account to
 <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or sign off at
 <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
=======================================================================
 * Please submit contributions to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>.
 * Contributions will be displayed unedited in digest form.
 * Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
 * Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
   to be sent to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
   <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
 * Please use only Plain Text format, not Rich Text (HTML) or any other
   type of format, in your submissions
=======================================================================