LL-L: "Language survival" LOWLANDS-L, 28.FEB.2001 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 28.FEB.2001 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachean, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
LS=Low Saxon (Low German), S=Scots, Sh=Shetlandic, Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: rudi [rudi at its.co.za]
Subject: LL-L: "Language survival" LOWLANDS-L, 13.FEB.2001 (05)

Hallo Ron
I have been following the several discussions going on LL-L - most
interesting.
It's time I stopped lurking and also made a contribution.

Language survival has always been an interesting topic to me - both at the
language level and at a personal level. Having been born in Holland and
emigrating
to South Africa (in 1948), I grew up speaking Dutch and Afrikaans. English was
a
later addition. Where does language survival come in all of this? I spoke (and
still speak) Dutch to my children, siblings and my Dad. My children thus grew
up
in a bilingual home -Afrikaans and Dutch. When pressed, (like when they speak
to
their grandfather) they speak a perfectly acceptable Dutch, but not as fluent
as
they would like. They only speak Afrikaans to each other and Dutch in our
family
will die with them. Is this a case of non survival? Certainly at the
individual
level.

Contrast this with German speaking South Africans who have maintained their
language for up to four generations after immigrating to SA. This, I believe,
is
largely due to their very strong support for the Deutsche Schule. There is one
in
Pretoria, one in Johannesburg and one in Cape Town. Some of your contributors
on
the topic of Scots survival and acceptance, stated that if a language is to
survive, it needs to be spoken at school. I believe that to be true in the
case of
German. One should also not forget the well established and flourishing
Lutheran
Church which conducts its services only in German.

Question: does this phenomenon occur in other countries and other languages?

Another question: What would be the role be that a company like Microsoft
plays in
the arena of language standardisation? As their spelling checkers in a variety
of
languages are ubiquitous, would they not have a disproportionate influence on
language standardisation? Could they (MS) even go so far as to 'dictate'
standards?

Even though I am not a linguist, now that the ice is broken, I will attempt to
participate in your very interesting discussions.

Please keep it up!

Kind regards
Rudi Vari

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Language survival

Dear Rudi,

Thanks for daring to leave the relative safety of "lurkerhood" ("lurkerdom"?),
and welcome among the contributors.

You seem to be bringing two threads back together again: "Language survival"
and "Language planning."  That's all right, though, because the two are
related.

I think the case can be made that hitherto non-standardized languages,
certainly minority languages, have less of a chance of survival.
Unfortunately, the usual pattern is that there is little more than squabbling
about whether or not a language should undergo planning, and if so then how
and who gets to contribute input, etc., etc.  And by the time all the
squabbling dies down there isn't much of a language left to plan for, because
there has been much squabbling and little or no planning.  In the case of
Scots, there may still be plenty of time to continue the squabbling, because
Scots is still widely spoken and relatively strong.  In the case of Low Saxon
(Low German), time is truly awasting.  There are numerous estimates of speaker
numbers being thrown around, ranging from a handful to 10 million, but for all
intents and purposes, the language is moribund, and only its integration into
formal education can save it, which requires the creation of standards, which
requires some planning ...  But I am afraid people are not going to get their
act together, judging by the way things have been going.

The case of Dutch vs Afrikaans in your family is very interesting to me.  I
wonder if Dutch as a minority language overshadowed by Afrikaans may have
certain disadvantages that contribute to its demise as a family language.  The
two languages are extremely closely related and to a high degree mutually
intelligible.  As pretty much every LL-L subscriber knows, Afrikaans has
stripped itself of most morphological complications; i.e., it has rid itself
of suffixes, gender differences in articles, etc., by way of what may be
considered regularization and simplification.  I can imagine that Dutch seems
like a complicated version of Afrikaans to Afrikaans speakers, and this, I
imagine is an impediment to Afrikaans speakers learning and retaining Dutch.

In my and other people's experience, it is sometimes easier to learn a
language that is or seems unrelated to your own, because you have to learn it
"from the ground up," so to speak.  The more closely a language is related to
and mutually intelligible with your own or a previously studied one, the
harder it is to motivate yourself to learn its rules properly; i.e., you tend
to learn it in a "sloppy" way.  This is a problem I have always had with
learning Dutch and Afrikaans, because my Low Saxon (Low German) and German
background allowed me to understand a lot of them even before I ever made an
effort to improve my passive knowledge of them.  This is also a problem I had
learning additional Turkic languages after having learned Turkish, Uyghur and
Kazakh, which represent the main Turkic groups and allow you to understand
most other Turkic languages without really studying them.  So I wonder if your
children (secretly) perceive Dutch as being "just a bother."  Why speak
complicated when you don't have to and when most people you know don't?

Yes, I agree that formal education in a minority language, like German in
South Africa, probably increases its survival chances.  However, there are
considerable differences between German and Afrikaans, even though they are
related.  Would Dutch have the same survival chances as a minority language
under Afrikaans if there were Dutch schools?  I am inclined to assume that it
would still have more of a struggle.

How about taking a survey among your children about their perceptions and
motivation (or lack of motivation) in this regard (if you can get them to
speak frankly)?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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