LL-L: "Etymology" LOWLANDS-L, 11.JAN.2001 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 11.JAN.2001 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Thomas [t.mcrae at uq.net.au]
Subject: LL-L: "Etymology" LOWLANDS-L, 10.JAN.2001 (09) [E]

An old Edinburgh song mothers sang o their babes in arms was 'Keekie Boo, Ah
see you, Hidin aroound the coarner.'

Regards
Tom
Tom Mc Rae
Brisbane Australia
"Oh wid some power the Giftie gie us
Tae see oorselves as ithers see us"
Robert Burns--

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From: Helge Tietz [helgetietz at yahoo.com]
Subject: LL-L: "Etymology" LOWLANDS-L, 10.JAN.2001 (06) [E]

If the Scots use "keek" use it in words like
"keekin-glass" that reminds me strongly to the danish
word "kikkert" which simply means "bi'noculars,
peeping glass", moreover the word "keek" exists as
such in Danish and Norwegian as well with the same
meaning as in Scots, difficult to say whether this is
an old-Norse word or whether it derived as a loan from
Low saxon during the Hanseatic times, nevetheless, the
fact that it exists in Scots makes it likely that it
is of Norse origion, imported during the Viking
colonization to Scotland, as so many other words. That
it has equivalents in Dutch, Low saxon and German with
a slightly different meaning might simply prove common
Germanic origion.

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From: Pepijn Hendriks [pepijnh at bigfoot.com]
Subject: LL-L: "Etymology" LOWLANDS-L, 09.JAN.2001 (01) [E]

R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com] wrote:

>I have long been wondering about Scots _keek_ 'look', because Low
>Saxon (Low German) has _kiek_ (_kieken_).  Yes, German has _guck_
>(_gucken_).  I assume the woman you heard actually spoke Low Saxon,
>because _kiek_ is not even used in Missingsch (i.e., Northern German
>on Low Saxon substrate).  In Missingsch and in various other types of
>North German dialect you pronounce it [k`Uk] even though you usually
>write it _guck_.  (If she had spoken Missingsch or "broad" Northern
>German, the woman would have said, _Kuck ma!_.  Pronouncing it [gUk]
>is decidedly "Southern," as is using _schau_ (_schauen_), though more
>and more Northerners seem to be adopting these now when they want to
>sound particularly well-educated.)

Lass mich mal meinen Senf dazu geben.

I spent some six months in Berlin two years ago (and I have been
there on longer visits several times since), and I don't have any
recollection of hearing anyone pronounce _gucken_ other than with
a [k], including students from other parts of Germany.

In Berlin, _kieken_ *is* used. Especially one of my friends will use it
regularly. (He speaks High German, but more North German elements
seem to slip in his speech when he's emotional or tired.)

I remember watching footage of the memorable events of November
1989, in which the reporter asked people coming from the East what
they were planning on doing in West-Berlin, who more than once
replied: "Einfach ma kieken".

Its being in use in Berlin is confirmed by Hans Meyer's _Der richtige
Berliner in Wörtern und Redensarten_ (10th revised and
supplemented edition, 1965):

-----
*kieken* gucken. "Kiek ma an!" "Nu kiek ma bloß an!" (gelinde
Verwunderung). "Der hat jekiekt!" (Beschwerde der Kinder beim
Versteckspiel). "Er kiekt sich de Oogen aus'n Kopp." "Kiekste aus
_die_ Luke?", also darauf willst du hinaus? "Wen meenste denn?" "Na
den, der imma so kiekt." "Kiek ma aus't Fensta, wenn de keen Kopp
hast!" 'Kieken jehn' (als Zuschauer zu einer Trauung gehen). "Ick
kieke eenmaal, ick kieke zweemal und denk: nanu? da hat doch eena
dran jedreht?"
-----

-Pepijn

--
 pepijnh at bigfoot.com -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~pepijnh -- ICQ - 6033220

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Etymology

Dear Lowlanders,

You may have noticed that Danish _kikkert_ mentioned by Helge and Danish
_kikke_ (~ _kige_) mentioned by Niels have a double-k, and you may wonder if
it is therefore impossible to link it with Low Saxon (Low German) _kieken_ 'to
look'.  Please note that in most North Saxon dialects the infinite form and
all present tense forms of this verb have a long /i/ (_ie_) with the exception
of the second and third persons singular, which have a short /i/:

Inf.:     kieken

Present
1st sg.:  ick kiek(e) [?Ik 'k`i:k(e)]
2nd sg.:  du kickst [du: k`Iks(t)]
3rd sg.:  he/se/dat kickt [hEI/zEI/dat k`Ikt]
1st pl.:  wie kiekt/kieken [vi: k`i:kt/'k`i:k=N]
2nd pl.:  jie kiekt/kieken [ji: k`i:kt/'k`i:k=N]
3rd pl.:  se kiekt/kieken [zEI k`i:kt/'k`i:k=N]

Preterite
1st sg.:  ick keek [?Ik k`EIk]
2nd sg.:  du keekst [du: k`EIks(t)]
3rd sg.:  he/se/dat keek [hEI/zEI/dat k`EIk]
1st pl.:  wie keken [vi: 'k`EIk=N]
2nd pl.:  jie keken [ji: 'k`EIk=N]
3rd pl.:  se keken [zEI 'k`EIk=N]

Past Participial
keken ~ käken ['k`e:k=N] ~ ['k`E:k=N]
(usually used with _hebben_ 'have')

Thanks to Pepijn for his explanation of Berlin expressions (above).  Let me
just add for the benefit of those who are not already aware of it that Berlin
lies within the area of Low Saxon (Low German), and that the actual Low Saxon
dialects of Berlin are lost.  What is usually described as Berlin dialect, in
its "broad" form (g > j, German accusative or dative form for both dative and
accusative) as found in the examples Pepijn gave, can be savely described as a
type of "Missingsch," i.e., a German dialect with a more or less strong Low
Saxon substrate.  (Using German accusative or dative form for both dative and
accusative is one of the typical features of Missingsch varieties.  Low Saxon
has only a single objective case, thus no morphological differentiation
between dative and accusative of the type German has.)

Background reading:
Siewert, Max (1903); _Die niederdeutsche sprache Berlins von 1300-1500_;
Norden (Germany): D. Soltau.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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