LL-L: "Nicknames" LOWLANDS-L, 05.JUN.2001 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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From: Criostoir O Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L: "Nicknames" LOWLANDS-L, 05.JUN.2001 (01) [E]

Dear all,

Thanks to Elsie for the contribution. Elsie wrote:

>         How come William became "Bill", Robert "Bob"
> and Richard "Dick"?

The last example is that Anglo-Norman trilled [r] was
unable to be pronounced by Early Middle English
speakers, who realised it as [d], attempting a trill.
It is interesting to note that when I speak Irish to
my English niece and nephew, they always hear the [r]
and [r'] as [d] and will usually parrot it as [d'd].
The loss of the "abstract" suffix -ard is fairly
characteristic of English dimunition. (cf: "Commie"
for "Communist" or "Communard")

I can't honestly explain [r] to [b] in the case of
Bob/Robert. So far as I understand it, that's a Scots
form. I suppose a more Gaelic Scottish milieau might
produce the form *Rory from Robert, particularly by
association of the existing Gaelic name "Ruairidh"
(Ir. Ruairí - "red-haired"). It might be entire
fantasy, but if the Anglo-Normans pronounced Robert as
['wob at t], where [r] could be confused with bilabial
[w], a hyper-correction of [w] > [b] might occur. I've
never seen the form *Bobert, however.

[w] > [b] is a standard Gaelic hypercorrection,
although in both Irish and Scots Gaelic William was
adopted as Uilliam [il'li:@m'] first and then
shortened to Liam [li:@m'] rather than as Builliam
[bwil'li:@m']. To arrive at [b] from [w] I would
presume one would be encountering a fairly unstable
phonological system - such as lenition in the Celtic
languages. (There are no Gaelic words beginning with
either [v] or [w]. Both sounds exist only in mutation
or in borrowings.)

I hoped this helped.

Go raibh maith agaibh,

Críostóir.

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Nicknames"

Críostóir, Lowlanders,

Couldn't some of the apparent shortened forms be based on baby talk?  I know
several cases where someone's baby pronunciation of their own name or for
instance of a sibling's name eventually stuck.  Example: one of my sisters'
name is Hannelore, which she pronounced as "Lollo" as a toddler, and family
members still address her or refer to her as "Lollo."  Perhaps in some cases
this kind of thing takes off and is spread farther afield to this name in
general.  I could imagine Robert > Bob to be one such case, adding to it also
Southern States American English Bubba (which does come from Robert, doesn't
it?).

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

P.S.: Interestingly, no one ever tried to give me a nickname based on my name,
at least not to my face, probably because they knew I wouldn't go for it.
(This "Ron" thing has an entirely different and long story behind it.)  There
doesn't seem to be a commonly accepted German short form for Reinhard.  There
is a Low Saxon (Low German) one: Reinke -- yes, like "Reynke de Vos" ("Renard
the Fox"), but that's as archaic as Renard is in English.

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