LL-L: "Grammar" LOWLANDS-L, 09.OCT.2001 (01) [S]

Tue Oct 9 14:24:56 UTC 2001

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From: Andy.Eagle at t-online.de (Andy Eagle)
Subject: "Grammar" [S]

Sandy Fleming wrate:
>
>Whan we haed the discussion anent makkin corrections tae Scots texts for
>praisentation, it wis generally agreed that correctin spellins wis aa
richt,
>but no correctin grammar. That wis the end o'd at the time, but lately A'v
>could pit the anglifications made bi Scots writers ettlin at fause
>literariness intae fower categories (verb concord, past pairticiple vycins,
>liaison, an which/wha/that confusion), an aa o them can be automate wi
>little mair than simple mark-up, sae it's possible nou for me tae offer twa
>vairsions o a text, the tane wi the makar's grammar an the tither wi mair
>clessic (an maind that means mair consistent) grammar.
>
>In tryin this system oot on the Tam O'Shanter, three o the fower categories
>is smaa trouble, but whan it comes tae verb concord, some kittle pynts
comes
>up that A'd like tae hear some ither opeenions on.
>
>The Tam O'Shanter begins like this (this an aa the ither texts quoted is ma
>orthographically-redd-up vairsions):
>
>When chapman billies leave the street,
>An drouthy neibors neibors meet,
>As market-days are wearin late,
>An folk begin to tak the gate;
>
>In a mair clessic Scots grammar (an tho A say "clessic", Scots is still
>spoken like this) the verb concord is different:
>
>When chapman billies leaves the street,
>An drouthy neibors neibors meets,
>As market-days is wearin late,
>An folk begins to tak the gate;
>
>The question here is - should A chainge "street" tae "streets" here, for
tae
>haud the rhyme siccar?
>
>It gets mair saerious whan the chainge o verb concord affecks the scansion:
>
>As bees bizz(es) out wi angry fyke
>When plunderin herds assail(s) their byke,
>As open(s) pussie's mortal foes
>When pop! she starts before their nose,
>As eager rins the market-croud,
>When 'Catch the thief!' resounds aloud.
>Sae Maggie runs; the witches follow(s),
>Wi mony an eldritch skriech an hollow.
>
>The'r naething'll sort the rhyme this time, no that it richt maiters. Mair
o
>a maiter is the extrae syllable gits pitten on "bizz". This maks a bourach
o
>the scansion, but at the same time, the surfer haes requested the correckit
>vairsion o the text - is it better tae get the scansion richt, or is it
>better tae lat the reader see the richt grammar an mak up his ain mind hou
>tae read it?

The problem wi poetry o coourse is the writers ain 'airtistic leecense'.
Whiles mixin 'English' an Scots forms for tae mak a rhyme.
Is 'foes' no faes in Scots? but o coorse faes disna rhyme wi 'nose'. Whit
aboot follae (follow) an hollow?
The selsame 'airtistic leecense' applees tae the scansion, for tae gar rhyme
an meter wirk the poet is bein 'creative'.
Bi chaingin thon ye michht be guddlin wi a bodie's intent. Difficult ane A
ken. Spellins is ae thing - it bides the selsame bit o writin - chyngin
grammer chynges mair nor juist spellins.

>Gin ye like a chaillenge, it's no that sinnle thir twa difficulties comes
>thegither at ae locus, likes o in Lucky Nancy (makar unbekent):
>
>While fops in saft Italian verse
>Ilk fair anes een an breist rehearse(s)

While fops in saft Italian verse(s)
Ilk fair anes een an breist rehearse(s)

>This verb concord business raxes oot intae extrae dimensions whan it comes
>tae the saicont body singular forms o the verb. Here "thee/thou/thy" as it
>stauns in the Tam O'Shanter (A'v capitalised the relevant verb-pronoun
>pairs, wi the pattern bein important):
>
>O Tam! HADST THOU but been sae wice
>As taen thy ain wife Kate's advice!
>She tauld thee weel THOU WIS a skellum,
>A bletherin, blusterin, drunken blellum;
>That frae November till October,
>Ae market-day THOU WISNA sober;
>That ilka melder wi the miller
>THOU SAT as lang as THOU HAD siller;
>That every naig wis ca'd a shoe on,
>The smith an thee gat roarin fou on;
>That at the Lord's house, even on Sunday,
>THOU DRANK wi Kirkton Jean till Monday.
>She prophesied that, late or suin,
>THOU WAD be fund deep droun'd in Doon;
>Or catch'd wi warlocks in the mirk
>Bi Alloway's auld haunted kirk.
>
>Ye'll notice that oot o seeven uises here, Burns uizes the richt Scots form
>in six o them - ie he dis ken what he's daein! The question is what A
should
>dae wi the ane whare he uizes the English form. On the tae haun, the fack
>that he uizes the Scots forms hissel suggests aa the mair that, for
>consistency, A should apply the Scots form in the correckit vairsion; on
the
>tither, the fack that he seems tae ken what he's daein suggest that he's
>uizin the English form for dramatic effeck in the openin line o the
passage.
>On the ither haun, A'm no shuir the "Biblical" diction here is aa that
>noticeable - the hale passage is preachy an yet it maistly uizes naitral
>Scots diction. For the sake o consistency again, could A be juistified in
>sayin that the differ atween "hadst thou" an "had thou" isna aa that
muckle,
>mak it consistent?

A jalouse Burns wis uisin HADST THOU for effect tae shaw 'preachin' is mynt.
At the time thare wisna a readily available Scots Bible tae lift a model
fae.
Gin ye chynge thon ye micht be chyngin whit Burns wis mynt tae pit ower.
>
>It's interestin tae think hou Burns meant "hadst thou" tae be soondit, tho.
>Did he expeck his readers/reciters tae say [hVdst DVu] an yet say [hVd
Du:]?
>An again, what's mair important, guid Scots or a literary effeck winnin fae
>a pawkie mixtur o Scots an English?
>
>Ye micht airgy that "hadst thou" an "had thou" is sax an six, but wi the
>verb "tae be" the'r a extrae dimension again. Leuk at this verse fae "My
>Love is Like a Red, Red Rose":
>
>Sae fair art thou, my bonnie lass,
>      Sae deep in love am I:
>An I will lo'e thee still, my dear,
>      Till a' the seas gang dry.
>
>Or, wi the grammar correckit the wey A'v been sayin:
>
>Sae fair is thou, my bonnie lass,
>      Sae deep in love am I:
>An I will lo'e thee still, my dear,
>      Till a' the seas gangs dry.
>
>Nou it's a maiter o opeenion (but syne this is hou A want ither
opeenions!),

The seicont version is better tae me but aiblins anither deleeberate uise o
'biblical' speak tae pit ower the 'honesty an purity' o his intent tae the
lassie - i.e. he wisna juist sayin thir things for tae git his wickit wey -
or wis he?

>but ye could fairly say that "art thou" dis soond better in this sang. A
>masel wad fain juist mak it aa guid Scots, but in this case the ar a
>alternative tae "is thou", because some translators o the Bible intae Scots
>haes uized the form "thou are" insteed o the English "thou art". In fack,
>"thou are" is the normal form in Orkney, an tho Orcadian is different fae
>mainland Scots the ar the question o whether Bible translators got this
form
>fae Orcadian, or whether they kent it fae mainland Scots. A dout it's haurd
>tae ken nou, wi the "thou" forms haurly bein uized ony mair on the
mainland,
>but houever it micht be, it's still a fack that the ar a biblical precedent
>for this uizage.

Aiblins the translators juist uised 'are' akis 'art' disna kythe in Scots
ava but 'are' dis - tho ye coud argie the pynt o grammer is/are.

>Sae A could suggest a third form o this verse:
>
>Sae fair are thou, my bonnie lass,
>      Sae deep in love am I:
>An I will lo'e thee still, my dear,
>      Till a' the seas gangs dry.
>
>An the question is, what ane o the three div ye's aa like best?

Sae fair is thou, my bonnie lass,
    Sae deep in love am I:
An I will lo'e thee still, my dear,
    Till a' the seas gangs dry.

Juist acause it soonds the maist 'naitural' Scots tho 'thoo' haes niver been
a pairt o ma speak (A ken it wis ordinar whan RB wis aboot).
Tho yer last ane dis inrowe the 'honesty an purity' o intent wi a mair
formal/biblical 'are'.

Andy Eagle

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