LL-L "Place names" 2000.10.22 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 22.OCT.2001 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From:  Elsie Zinsser <ezinsser at simpross.co.za>
Subject: LL-L "Place names" 2000.10.20 (02) [E]
Hi all

R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com> wrote re: Place names

The noun _Kamp_ can still be used in Modern Low Saxon, denoting 'piece
of soil', 'ground', 'area', 'field', 'paddock', etc., although these
days it seems to be archaic in most dialects and mostly survives in
place names and in certain expressions, such as _Kösters Kamp_
"verger's/sexton's field" = 'churchyard', 'cemetery'. Dutch and
Afrikaans, too, use the noun _kamp_ in this sense
(besides the sense of English "camp").

"Kamp' is not used in Afrikaans to denote 'churchyard' or 'cemetery'.
The
meaning in Afrikaans is for camping or to denote an enclosed area for
animals.
(As in "kraal" < curral). For example: kampeergronde; kamp opslaan;
kampeerplek; tent kamp; karavaan kamp; naweek kamp; oornag kamp;
ooikamp;
 lammerkamp.

Also "weermag kamp" (during our years of forced conscription) but I
assume that
the meaning was derived from English military phraseology.

Regards
Elsie Zinsser

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Place names

Elsie, this was a case of poor use of pronouns on my part.  What I had
meant to say was that Dutch and Afrikaans, like Low Saxon, use _kamp_
also in the sense of 'piece of soil', 'ground', 'area', 'field',
'paddock', etc., not in the sense of 'cemetery'.  I had given _Kösters
Kamp_ "verger's/sexton's field" = 'churchyard', 'cemetery' as a
Low-Saxon-specific example of the now limited use of _Kamp_, namely that
frozen in certain expressions.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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From: Sandy Fleming [sandy at scotstext.org]
Subject: "Place names"

 > From: Ted.Harding at nessie.mcc.ac.uk
 > Subject: "Camp" in Scots
 >
 > On a promontory called Burdon Ness in Scotland, where the Firth of Tay
 > meets open sea, is an area of land called Barry Camp.

There's also the "Campsie Fells" somewhere around Glasgow or
Lanarkshire (I've climbed a few of these mountains a few
times, but never looked at them on a map, so I don't know
exactly where they are!).

It's difficult to know where the word "Campsie" comes from -
especially since the use of the term "Fells" seems rather
out of place for the area, so I wouldn't depend on that as a
cue to the language.

The nearest Gaelic word I can think of is the "cam" in such places
as "Cammo" and "Cambuslang". This means "bay", and so wouldn't
explain the Campsies. Also, it doesn't explain where the "p"
would come from. The "b" in "Cambuslang" is actually an incorrect
insertion because of the usual dropping of "b" after "m" in Scots,
ie erroneously taking "cammus" &c to be a Scots pronunciation of
the non-existent "cambus".

The words "camp" and "kemp" do exist in Scots with meanings
associated with striving, heroism and accomplishment.

However, there is also the archaic use of "camp" in Scots to
describe enclosures for sheep, cattle or even just mounds of
potatoes.

Sandy
http://scotstext.org
A dinna dout him, for he says that he
On nae accoont wad ever tell a lee.
                          - C.W.Wade,
                    'The Adventures o McNab'

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